Resilience in Action: Raising Awareness to Save Lives After Surviving the Unthinkable

Leanna McGrath  0:08  
Welcome to the executive coach for moms podcast where we support women who are attempting to find balance and joy while simultaneously leading people at work and at home. I'm your host.L eanna Laskey McGrath, former tech exec turned full time mom, recovering perfectionist and workaholic and certified executive coach. 

Leanna McGrath  0:29  
Hi everyone. Welcome back to the show, and thank you so much for being here with us this week. The episode I'm going to be sharing today is on a topic that is a bit heavier than the content I normally share, but I also think it's a really, really important one. I know that many of the listeners of this show are women, and a recent report shared on breaktheccycle.org stated that nearly every one in two women in the United States will face physical violence from an intimate partner at some point in their lives, and also that more than 16 million people are impacted by intimate partner violence in any given year in the United States. And so I think it's safe to assume that listeners in our community have either been directly impacted by domestic violence or have someone in their lives or on their teams who have, and often before it escalates to physical violence, there is emotional and or psychological abuse in the relationship. 

Leanna McGrath  1:31  
And so today I'm sharing a conversation I had with an old friend of mine, Caitlin Roberts. Caitlin has worked in higher education for over 20 years, and she is a strong advocate for, and an amazing supporter of, her students. Five years ago, Caitlin was brutally attacked and almost killed by her partner and the father of her child after enduring years of emotional and psychological abuse, but missing the signs in the hopes of having a happy family. Now, she's speaking out and sharing her story. And she really wants to speak for those who can't. She wants to bring awareness in the hopes of helping others avoid a situation like hers. And so I just think this is such an important topic to bring to our community to help spread awareness and hopefully to help make an impact. 

Leanna McGrath  2:17  
I do want to share a content warning that we will be talking about the details of the attack, and so if you're not in a place to hear that, then please take care of yourself. She also shared some of the signs that she missed before the escalation happened, which I genuinely hope will be helpful for anyone who might see themselves in Caitlin's story. And please share this episode with anyone in your life who you think might benefit from hearing it. This attack completely changed her life and that of her young son's. Caitlin was stabbed 19 times in the chest, arms and neck, and she's undergone seven surgeries to physically recover, and of course, there's also the emotional recovery from the trauma for her and her son. Caitlin is such a kind and caring person, and she's also extremely strong and resilient, and I'm just so grateful that she's still with us to continue shining her beautiful light in this world. So thank you so much for joining me and now on to today's conversation.

Leanna McGrath  3:20  
Hi everyone. Welcome back to the show, and thank you so much for joining us today. I am so excited to welcome my very old friend from a few lifetimes ago, Caitlin Roberts. We spent some time together back when I lived in California for grad school 20 years ago, and so I'm so excited to welcome her onto the show today. So welcome Caitlin. Thank you so much for being here with us. 

Caitlin Roberts  3:45  
Thanks so much, Leanna. I'm really excited to be here. 

Leanna McGrath  3:47  
Yeah, well, maybe you could start off just telling us all a little bit about yourself and where you are in the world, who you are in the world, and what we should know about you.

Caitlin Roberts  3:57  
Yeah, let's see. I currently live in Oregon. I work at the University of Oregon as the director of fraternity and sorority life. I've been here about seven years, and just love being here, and then I actually like the rain, so it's not so bad for a Southern California girl where I grew up. It's definitely a change, but it's been a great experience. I grew up 15 minutes from Disneyland in Orange County, and was really lucky to be able to have that as part of my childhood. I went to California State University - San Bernardino for undergrad, and Pepperdine University, where I received a Master's in psychology. I've been working in higher education for 21 years now, almost 22, and I love working with college students and being able to build relationships and see them grow in their lives after they graduate. I've seen marriages and babies and divorces and the whole life cycle of students. Five years ago, I my whole life changed when I became the victim of domestic violence. So I've made it my mission to share my story with the hopes of impacting even just one person so that they can recognize the signs of an unhealthy relationship and not experience what I experienced. 

Leanna McGrath  5:29  
Yeah, yeah. And I'm so grateful to you for sharing your story. It's so brave of you and selfless of you, because, I mean, I'm sure when you when you share it, you're having to relive the experience. And obviously it was a was a painful one. And so as you've been sharing your story, how have you found that to be has that been challenging? Has it been healing, a little bit of both?

Caitlin Roberts  5:54  
Probably a little bit of both. But I think I find it more healing than than challenging. I think every time I share it, I feel a little bit better. So it's like I share a little bit more of the story, or maybe a little bit less of the story, but I I'm able to share it in that moment with what feels right for that audience, or whoever I'm speaking with, and it does help my heart a little bit. I find that a few days after so if I speak to an audience and share the story, it's a couple days later where I just am like, oh, I need a breather now. I think I get so excited about speaking, and I prepare myself so much for that that it takes a little bit of time to kind of unwind from from it. And it took me a little bit of time to figure out that that's, that's what was happening, because I kind of expected to have that let down right away, and it didn't happen for a couple days. So now I know that a couple days later, I'm going to need to take care of myself a little bit extra.

Leanna McGrath  7:02  
Yeah, that's so interesting. When you first started saying that, I was thinking, is she talking about, like, how Brene Brown talks about vulnerability hangovers? 

Caitlin Roberts  7:07  
Yeah, it really is a lot like that. Yeah. I think that's a great way to describe it. 

Leanna McGrath  7:15  
Yeah, I know sometimes when I share part of my story, and then I'm like, oh, did I say it through how I wanted to, and did it resonate? And, yeah, that kind of thing. So I would love if you could maybe tell us, I don't know if it makes most sense to start at, start at the beginning chronologically, or start with the night five years ago where it changed your life, and then take us back. You tell me.

Caitlin Roberts  7:38  
I think probably chronologically, I can share. Okay, so I grew up in a upper middle class area of Orange County, and my parents were married when I was two and a half, and my dad adopted me when I was five, and he was the only dad I'd ever known. And I think they really loved each other, but they didn't like each other very much. I didn't have a real healthy example of relationships growing up, and I think I had a lot of desire to just be loved and have someone pay attention to me and care about me. My first relationship when I was 16 was incredibly emotionally and psychologically abusive. He never really acted like he liked me that much, yet I stuck around and went through a lot of difficult situations. When prom came around, he told me that his mom wanted him to take someone else because she wanted better pictures. He would tell me things like, my friends don't know why I'm dating you. They think I could do so much better. And so I just kind of took that all in. I didn't I didn't get angry with him. I was angry at his mom for her comments. I was angry at his friends, and I didn't see that he was using these comments to manipulate me and to really break me down, which is exactly what he did. And so I stayed in that relationship for almost three years, and we went to college together, and I really didn't think very highly of myself at all. I didn't like myself very much, and it it showed in, you know, my patterns of relationships. 

Caitlin Roberts  9:32  
I didn't have a relationship for a long time, and in 2012 I met Chris, and we started dating, and it was a whirlwind romance. He was so sweet and attentive and kind and fun. We had a lot of fun, and it moved very fast, and within five months, we had moved in together. And a couple months after that, I found out that I was expecting our son, and everything was looking great for me. I had always wanted to be a mom. I had this relationship, but it was actually the day we moved in where I started having second thoughts. He just like a switch flipped, and he just wasn't nice to me anymore, and that went on for the remainder of our relationship. He cheated, and really wasn't even ashamed of it. He just, Yeah, I did it, so what are you going to do about it? He treated me very poorly, but I was in this space of I want to have a happy family. I knew he didn't have a great childhood growing up, and so I thought that I could give him this happy family that he had missed out on. And my mindset was so challenged, I guess I just had this thought that I was going to make the difference and I could create this happy life for everyone, my son, my partner, myself, but the reality is that I didn't like myself very much, so I allowed myself to be treated poorly, and he wasn't looking for the same thing I was looking for. He made it very clear he never wanted to get married. So I was like, okay, that's fine. I don't need to get married. 

Leanna McGrath  11:25  
Had that been something that you wanted and you changed that or?

Caitlin Roberts  11:28  
Yeah, I always pictured myself getting married, and then eventually I just kind of settled into, okay, well, he doesn't want to get married. I'll be fine. We'll just not get married. And I look back on so many things where I just settled because I didn't want to start a fight, I didn't want to, you know, muddy the waters. I just wanted peace. I wanted happiness. And you can't force somebody to be happy. You just can't. And I get frustrated with myself still, because I think about, you know, my education, I have two degrees in psychology, and I studied relationships, and I always was able to have difficult conversations with friends who were in, you know, challenging relationships, and I couldn't do that for myself. And it's hard to look back and see that, and it's hard to say there's so many things I could have done differently, but I didn't learn that. And so I thought what I was doing was normal. I thought the situation I was in was normal for me, and I've realized so much now that I didn't deserve it. I didn't I deserve to be treated better. I deserve to be loved. I deserve to be respected, and that just didn't exist in that relationship.

Leanna McGrath  12:51  
Yeah, I think it's really hopefully helpful for people to hear that you who's highly educated with multiple psychology degrees, who regularly gives advice to friends and supports them in their relationships, did not recognize the signs. Because maybe for someone who doesn't have those qualifications, who hasn't recognized the signs, maybe they can see also that it's not our fault that we don't recognize these signs because no said we're really we're not always taught them. And I think sometimes it's so much easier to look at someone else's relationship from a third party perspective and be able to share our thoughts about that, than when we're in it. And I think that, you know, especially when we have a friend where we're like, it's so clear, like, what is she doing? Get out. Get out. You know, it's really hard to be that person on the outside, but, you know, it's like, we have just a totally different vantage point and vision, right?

Caitlin Roberts  13:53  
Oh, absolutely. And it's way easier to see it from the outside.

Leanna McGrath  13:59  
Yeah. 

Caitlin Roberts  14:00  
And, you know, I found myself, I was really embarrassed by it. I didn't want anyone to know what was happening, because I prided myself on empowering women and being an advocate for women and not standing for abuse. But I couldn't do that for myself, and I think that has been really hard to reconcile, and I've really been doing a lot of work lately to kind of let myself know that it's okay. And when you know better, you do better. And so I'm really focused on on that piece now, and, you know, breaking the cycle for my son, so that he sees healthy relationships and he doesn't see what I went through as normal. I think, given the circumstances, he knows that's not normal, but it's still a hard cycle to break. And so yeah, talk about that a lot, and we talk about how we treat. People and how we expect others to treat us, and why so important. 

Leanna McGrath  15:05  
I wonder if this is some cognitive dissonance where, like you're doing the women's empowerment and advocating for women, and so then it's almost like your brain's like, I have to tell Caitlin a different story about what's happening here to keep her safe, right? Because there's no way she can go out and do that work that she cares about and see this for what it is. So, like, I'm just gonna, like, change the story for her to make this okay and make sure she doesn't recognize what's happening.

Caitlin Roberts  15:35  
Yeah, I think so, because I remember you kind of having conversations with myself, like, I think you're in an abusive relationship. You know, he was never physical with me. And Chris is a really big guy. He's six foot five and weighed about 270 pounds, and he definitely had a size advantage on me, but I never felt intimidated by him. I never felt scared of him, physically, he was much more controlling of me in a in a psychological and emotional type of way. We met in California, and about two years into our relationship, we moved to Georgia, and we lived there for two years, and that was a really tough move for me. I didn't have family really nearby, and I was the breadwinner. He was barely working, and, you know, our son was a toddler, so there was a lot of emotion, and in that sense, and so there was a lot going on, and it just it was really hard on me, and I made some really dear friends while I was there, but the job wasn't everything I wanted it to be, and I wasn't happy. I really wasn't happy. And so the opportunity to move to Oregon came up, and I jumped at it. Chris was excited for it. He was like packing before I even got home from my interview. He he was completely behind it. 

Caitlin Roberts  17:09  
But once we got here, things just went downhill rapidly, and he wasn't home much. He would just disappear for days at a time. He was angry at me because I hadn't helped him find a job before we moved. And eventually he did get a job, and he actually worked in the same building that I work in at U of O. And in my head, I'm like, Oh, this is great, you know, I'll be able to have lunch with him and see him. And it really almost became a burden of like, Oh yeah, you know, there he is again, kind of thing. Everybody at work loved him, though He was very charming. And so they all, you know, thought he was it was a great person. And he was not a great dad. He he would have his moments, but he threatened. Our son, fortunately never physically hurt him, but our son was scared of him and really didn't like him much. So in November of 2019, I found out he was cheating again. I honestly now don't think he ever really stopped, but I knew that there were multiple women that he was with, and I confronted him on it, and he was like, Yeah, so what are you gonna do about it? And so I told him he needed to leave that I had bought a house when we moved here, and he was angry that I hadn't put his name on it, and that was the best thing I ever did, was not get involved in owning anything with him. And actually, at that point, I was really glad I wasn't married to him, either, because it was a lot easier to dissolve the relationship. 

Caitlin Roberts  18:54  
For so long, I had held on to wanting to be in a relationship and wanting this to be all right. And at that moment, I remember, I was standing in my dining room, and I was just like, I don't like him, and I don't want to be around him anymore. So he, you know, was worried about finding a place to live, and my bleeding heart, I wasn't going to put him out on the street, and so I told him that he could stay and sleep on the couch until he found a place. And then it started getting closer to the holidays. And so I said, you know, you can, you can stay until after the holidays. And then my reasoning was that I didn't want my son's memories of Christmas that year to be when his dad left. And so I thought, well, you know, if he stays through the holidays, then we can peacefully end this afterward. My mom had moved in with us a few months before, and you know that that provided some challenges having my mom in the house, but she helped with childcare and that sort of thing. And so it got closer to Christmas. It was December 19, and a new Star Wars movie came out, and AJ, my son and Chris had this tradition of going to opening night of the movies that they like to see, so all the Marvel movies and Star Wars and things like that. And so he took AJ to the movies that night, and it was a late night, but the next day was going to be the last day of school before the winter break, and it was a pajama day for AJ, who was very excited. He was in kindergarten, and he was really looking forward to that day. You know, they could take their stuffy and wear their PJs. So they got home about 10 o'clock, and AJ came upstairs and got into my bed, and I never saw Chris. He he stayed downstairs, and we went to sleep. 

Caitlin Roberts  21:03  
And then about 3am my bedroom door opened, and it was pretty forceful. You know, I always say, like, if somebody's sleeping, you usually try to be real quiet if you open the door. And this was not quiet. And so it woke me up, and I looked up, and Chris was standing next to my bed, and I said, what's going on? And he just kind of stood there. And then he said, nothing. Don't worry about it. And he started to walk out of the room, and then he came back and picked up my phone off the nightstand, and then left and went downstairs. And I was just saying, This is so weird, you know, what is he doing? And then I was awake, and so I was wondering what time it was, and I picked up my iPad to check the time, and it was 3:09am, and I had five missed text messages from him, and they said things like, are you awake? Can you come downstairs? Please? I want to talk to you, please come downstairs. So I thought, well, I'm awake now. I may as well. So I made sure AJ was tucked into bed and asleep, and I went downstairs. I got to the bottom of the stairs, and I could see Chris standing in the living room. It was dark, but I could see him, and he was standing in front of this massive Christmas tree that we had gotten that year, and he was just standing there. And I said, What? What's going on? I'm here. Let's talk. And he said, Well, when were you going to tell me about all these guys? I had no idea what he was talking about, and he started naming people, and I'm like, I don't know who these people are. And then it dawned on me that a couple months prior, my best friend and I, we've been friends since fourth grade, we had been kind of joking around and sending memes back and forth to each other of like, horrible dating profiles. So it was like men holding up dead fish and, you know, things that just, we were just kind of joking around about it. Well, he saw those and assumed that those were people that I had legitimately been talking to, and never mind the fact that he actually was involved with other women. 

Leanna McGrath  23:23  
Yeah.

Caitlin Roberts  23:24  
But you know, I wasn't allowed to have conversations with other people, even fictional ones. So I kind of started to laugh because I thought, Well, did you know they were a joke? So I said, are you talking about those messages with Wendy? And he said, Oh, you think it's funny. Fuck you, bitch. Fuck you. And so at that point, I said, you need to get out of my house. And I moved over to the couch to sit down. And I said, Give me my phone back. I want you out, but give me my phone back. And so he went to the other end of the couch, and there was a throw pillow laying there, and I figured he was getting my phone for me, and the next thing I knew, he had me pinned to the couch, and I saw his arm go up like this and come down, and I could see a knife in his hand, and I remember saying, Are you stabbing me? And he just kept saying, shut up bitch. Shut up bitch, over and over. At that point, I yelled for my mom, and I said, He's stabbing me. He's killing me. And she heard me and rushed into my room where AJ was, and barricaded the door and called 911. I found out later that AJ had actually woken up when I got up and he was standing at the top of the stairs and heard his dad say, Shut up, bitch. Shut up, bitch. He got scared and ran back into my room, but he he knew something was going on. So Chris continued to stab me. The first two wounds were on my arm, and he was trying to get my throat, so I actually tucked my chin. And so I had several wounds along my chin. This one actually nicked and lacerated my lung, and then there's one over here, and at one point, I grabbed the knife, so I have a defensive wound where the knife cut my hand a couple other ones on my hands. And I remember saying to him, do you really want to leave your son without a dad? And he said, I want to leave my son without parents. And that's when I knew that he was going to kill me, and there was no question. It was all very surreal, and I didn't feel the wounds. My brain, my brain blocked the pain, so I really didn't feel it happening, but I could see things happening. And for some reason in my head, I thought, if I can turn my back to him, because I knew he was going for my throat, if I could turn my back to him, then maybe I would be safer. And so I managed to roll over, and he started on my head. And so he actually started right here, and there's scars kind of all the way down, one behind my ear. And I was wiggling and trying to fight, but I really there wasn't a lot I could do. I was pretty I was pinned down. I really couldn't move much. And the final wound went in to my neck here, and it came out my throat right here. And I actually could see the blade, um, sticking out of me. The it was an eight inch blade on the knife. So I said to him, I'm dead. I'm dead, and I just went limp. He took that as you know that I really was, I think, and he took the knife out, walked into the kitchen and laid it in the kitchen sink. While he was in the kitchen, I rolled onto the floor and played dead. He walked out of the house, and as he was walking out the front door, I could hear that he was making a phone call, and I found out later that he had made two phone calls to his ex, who he has a daughter with, and I don't know any details. She wouldn't share the details of those phone calls. He left voicemails. Anyway, I did know that he called her. I laid on the floor and cried out for my mom, but I was too weak. She couldn't hear me. My room is pretty soundproof, so the fortunate part is that they couldn't hear anything that was going on downstairs. But my mom had been on the phone with the call taker for 911 who has now become a dear friend of mine, and she put the call out, and they the police got there in three minutes, and actually from quite a distance that could normally take about 15 minutes on a on a good day, and they got there in three.

Leanna McGrath  28:15  
Wow. 

Caitlin Roberts  28:16  
The arresting officer is someone who I have mutual friends with from Orange County. He grew up there. It's just kind of funny how you know, the small world comes together. They found Chris sitting on the curb, kind of hidden behind his car, covered in blood, and arrested him. I while I laid on the floor, I could feel my body dying. I knew I was dying, and all I could think about was my son and what would happen to him. As a mom, I know you can understand that your your kids are your priority, and I knew that I had to be there for him. I found a blanket on the floor, and it tried to put pressure on my neck so that I could, you know, try to stop the bleeding. And then I heard my front door open, and they said, Eugene Police Department, who did this to you? I said, Christopher Hampton. And they said, Okay, we got him. And it was kind of a sense of relief. And then I was like, help me. You know, help me. And they came into the house. They actually were very concerned that he had an accomplice. So they were searching the house. And two officers went to help my mom and AJ, and two officers came to me. One of them kneeled down next to me, and I remember saying, Please don't let me die. And he was trying to be reassuring, and he was saying, we're not going to let that happen. And he carried combat gauze. And so he took the combat gauze off, out. And combat gauze has a special coagulant in it to stop bleeding, and it was designed for the military, and so he put that onto my neck to stop the bleeding. And I actually did die on my living room floor, but came back on my own, and I remember I wanted to sit up. They had rolled me over onto my back, and I couldn't breathe, and so I wanted to sit up. And so they helped me sit up. And I leaned against this officer's legs, and he told me later he was kind of almost holding me in a choke hold to keep me up. And I actually died again in that position. The paramedics got there, and when they removed the gauze, I came to. I woke, I came back, and it wasn't bleeding anymore. And Shane, the police officer, said he he really thought I was gone. And the paramedic said, No, actually, the combat gauze did its job, and it has stopped the bleeding. 

Caitlin Roberts  31:05  
So I remember them carrying me out of my house on like a tarp. And when we got outside, it was raining, and I felt the rain on my face, and they put me in the ambulance. And I remember as the ambulance left, I was trying to follow what direction we were going, and think about like, what street we were on, and when we got on the highway, they turned the sirens on, and it was a straight shot to the hospital. So I knew at that point I was close. I was really close to the hospital When we got there. What what it felt like? I don't know what reality was, but what it felt like is that they just wheeled me out of the ambulance and straight into the trauma room, and my eyes were closed for most of it, I think. And when we got into the trauma room, I could hear all these voices, and there was a doctor at my feet, and he was introducing himself. And then I looked to my left, and there's a man standing there with this big beard, and he said, Hi, I'm Andy, and I'm your nurse. And the then he said, What's up, buttercup? And I just remember thinking like he was going to take care of me. He was my angel in that moment. And I held up my hand, and he said, Do you want me to hold your hand? And I said, Yeah. So Andy took my hand. I was pleading, you know, please don't let me die. Please don't let me die. And everyone in the room was like, we're going to take care of you. I remember they they cut my pajamas off, and I was thinking I really liked those pajamas. It's so funny. You know what sticks out to you? I was wearing a diamond necklace that actually the pendant had been my grandmother's wedding ring, and they were so cautious with it. It was on this very thin chain. And I'm amazed that it survived the attack. And they took it off and put it in a little bag and made sure my mom got it. And then I don't remember much. They put me to sleep. I ended up having two surgeries that day one to just stitch me up, staple me up, and then later in the day, a hand surgeon stitched up my hand, and I spent two and a half days in the ICU. And then a couple days later, they did another surgery because the wound in my neck had a blood clot in it, so they went in to clean that up. I ended up spending six days in the hospital, including Christmas Day, and I was released the day after Christmas, and I've just been focused on my recovery since then. So we're coming up on the five year anniversary in December, and I realized that the calendar this year falls the same as the calendar was in 2019 so the attack happened on a Friday, and that day is on a Friday again this year. And I looked at that just yesterday, and it it kind of gave me a little start like, Oh, this is going to look just like it did, but it won't because I'm safe.

Leanna McGrath  34:22  
Yeah. Oh. 

Caitlin Roberts  34:25  
That's heavy. I know. 

Leanna McGrath  34:26  
Yeah, I have so many things to ask you, and nothing seems to do justice to your story.

Caitlin Roberts  34:31  
But ask you know I wanted, I want to share. I want to talk about it. So, yeah,

Leanna McGrath  34:37  
Well, thank you so much for sharing your story. I'm like, trying to hold back tears myself, and just when you say you're safe, I mean, now, is there a trial? Is there a justice process? Do you have to go through all of that after you've been terrorized? And

Caitlin Roberts  34:57  
So they they took him to the police station, and. Interviewed him. He was kind of incoherent for a while. He claimed he blacked out, but then he did confess, and he ended up taking a plea deal. It got dragged out quite a bit. He, I think, wanted less time in Oregon, we have a law. It's called measure 11, dictates mandatory sentences for violent crimes, and in Oregon, the mandatory sentence for attempted murder is 90 months or seven years, but it's also 90 months for first degree assault. So they decided to charge him with first degree assault, because it's easier to prove so he pled guilty to first degree assault with the mandatory 90 day sentence, and then I wanted more time. My hope was that he would not get out until my son had graduated from high school. He ended up getting 12 years. The five years enhancements were because he had hid the knife and planned the attack, or indicated that that the attack was planned, and because my son was in the home, and he was six at the time. 

Caitlin Roberts  36:19  
So because the attack happened in December of 2019 and then in March of 2020 COVID hit, everything stopped. So he actually spent like a year and a half in the county jail before the sentence, and while they worked everything out, and all of the hearings were done virtually. So he was finally sentenced on February 8 of 2021 and I attended that hearing virtually and read a victim's impact statement, and then he went to prison. He was initially sent to a prison that's on the border of Oregon and Idaho. It's about nine hours from where I live, and was only there a year, and then he was moved to Oregon State Penitentiary, which is in Salem, which is our capital, and it's about an hour from where I live. I was pretty unnerved by that, because he was so much closer, but I've kind of come to terms with it now. He has filed for something called post conviction relief, and essentially it's kind of like an appeal process for someone who pled guilty. So even though he pled guilty and accepted the terms of the sentencing, he is now claiming that his original attorney did not live up to her constitutional duties, so he she failed him in defending him. So that case is going before a judge. It was supposed to happen at the beginning of October. Now it looks like it's not going to happen until the spring. His attorney now wants to settle for the original mandatory sentence of 90 months, which would mean he could get out in two years. I'm not okay with that, and fortunately, the WDA that I'm working with is not okay with it either. So if he wins, which is very likely to happen, it means we start back at zero. So he either takes another plea deal or he we go to trial. We're not going to accept a plea deal for anything less than what was originally sentenced, that's 144 months. And if we go to trial, we're going to seek more time, even though, at this point, it is still a few years off when he'll be released. 

Caitlin Roberts  38:56  
I'm scared. Thinking about him not being in prison is scary to me. We actually had some contact with him. I was allowing him to reach out to my son. For my son's sake, I wanted him to know who his dad was, but my son doesn't care. He refuses to call him dad. He calls him Chris. He had nothing to say to him when they did talk on the phone and when we would receive a letter, he wasn't even interested in reading it. Chris reached out to me one day and told me that his attorney wanted to talk to me. I guess she wants, wanted to talk to me to see how I felt about reducing his sentence. And that was the switch that flipped, and I said, Absolutely not. I have nothing to say to her. I have nothing to say to you. So he's blocked on all platforms and cannot reach us anymore. And actually, AJ and I were just talking about it last night, and we agreed that we both feel a lot better. There's no no thought of him. He's like gone now, and we both feel kind of this huge sense of relief that we don't have to worry about talking to him, and we don't have to worry about hearing from him. So I'm a little nervous, I think rightfully so, about what the future holds with his sentencing, but I'm hopeful that we'll come out of this okay.

Leanna McGrath  40:32  
yeah, I am so sorry. You have to relive it and go through the this whole process again. I had no idea that that was even a thing that could happen.

Caitlin Roberts  40:41  
I didn't either.

Leanna McGrath  40:42  
But hopefully it the sentence stands. I'm curious for you like as you've kind of been on this healing journey for the last five years, what have you found to be the most essential components to your healing?

Caitlin Roberts  40:58  
Therapy. I have an amazing therapist who I just love, and she's just been wonderful. It's been a journey, you know, I really have had to come to terms with a lot of things from my childhood and even adulthood and and just, you know, kind of learning to like myself. And when I say that, I think a lot of people who know me well are surprised by that, because I come across as pretty confident, but I've done a really good job of like putting on a face and being someone different in public than I am to myself. I don't think even my close friends knew the extent of a lot of it. Sharing my story has been helpful, and I've always been a pretty transparent person, but like extra transparent now, and I will tell my story to anyone who wants to hear it, and I will answer any question that anyone has. It has really helped me. 

Caitlin Roberts  42:06  
You know, as I mentioned, I work with college students, and I spoke at a conference last year, and there was this group of three women sat in the front row, and when it was over, they said, Thank you, and they left, and I was kind of gathering my stuff up, and a few minutes later, they came back into the room and asked if I had a few minutes to talk. And I said, Sure. So we stepped out into the hallway, and one of them shared, she said, I didn't realize that I had been in an abusive relationship, until I heard you talk about it, and it turned out she had a restraining order against an ex partner who was stalking her, and she never saw that as abuse. She was terrified, and he was still reaching out to her and still trying to contact her, and I could see the fear in her eyes, but she said she felt validated, because she finally understood that it wasn't okay to be treated that way, and what she was going through was was dangerous and not okay. And I think about her all the time. I spoke for a while with her and her friends. Her friends hadn't even known that this was happening until that moment, and I shared some resources with her, and, you know, asked her to connect with some specific people, and I really hope she did, and I really hope she's okay, because I think about her a lot. But every time I share my story, there are multiple people, one of my students here at Oregon, came up to me after a program and said, I was the AJ in my story. I was your son. I just want you know, he'll be okay. And, oh, that got me because, but that is, is really what helps me heal, is trying to help other people, but healing myself too, you know, taking care of myself and prioritizing my self care and knowing that it's okay to say no, the hardest word for me to learn to say but it's okay to say no. And I talk about, you know, setting healthy boundaries. And had someone asked me once, well, how do you set healthy boundaries without hurting someone's feelings? And I kind of did some crowd sharing with that one you know, like, what do other people think? And the thing is, like, you don't own someone else's feelings. They're responsible for their feelings, and if they're angry or upset that you have set boundaries for yourself, that's on them, not on you. You have to take care of yourself and be responsible for your own feelings. And as I said it, I was saying it to myself, and I repeat it to myself regularly, because it's hard. It's really hard, but I think for me, that's the key to having healthier relationships is standing up for myself and making sure that my needs are met. 

Leanna McGrath  45:28  
Yeah. I think so often as women, we are often prioritizing other people's comfort over our own. And so I mean, in that example of if I set a boundary, are they going to be upset about it? Well, really, the choice is like, are they going to be upset about me setting the boundary, or am I going to continue to live in a way that doesn't work for me? You know, like at the sacrifice of sparing their potential bad feelings about it. And it's kind of like sometimes we have to choose ourselves and recognize that we are by not setting a boundary, by not potentially upsetting someone which, number one, we don't even know if they will be a number two, like you said, we don't own their feelings. That's emotional. Adulthood is on them, for them to own their own feelings, right? But we're constantly letting ourselves down so that we don't let somebody else down.

Caitlin Roberts  46:24  
Yeah, oh, I agree absolutely.

Leanna McGrath  46:27  
Like you said, whenever she said about your son's gonna be okay, what about AJ in terms of his healing journey? And I mean, because you know you're having your own healing journey and having to go through this, and then you're also supporting your young son through this as well. How's that been?

Caitlin Roberts  46:44  
It's been hard. He's had a lot of anger and a lot of emotion. You know, for the first probably three months after it happened, he would cry every night that he missed his daddy. And you know, it was hard, because in a sense, I missed him too. I missed what I wanted him to be. And I remember a friend saying to me, how are you doing with the breakup, with the end of your relationship? Because not only did this horrific thing happen to you, but your relationship is totally over and very suddenly. And I think, you know, in my head, the relationship had been over a long time, and I was starting to come to terms with that before everything happened. So that helped a lot. But AJ wasn't prepared for that, you know, and he never got to say goodbye to his dad. It was just like all of a sudden, dad was gone and mom was in the hospital because of dad. He saw a wonderful therapist for several years, and unfortunately she moved and so we tried virtual, but it just it didn't work very well for him. So we go through a lot of challenges. He has a lot of anxiety. He is very attached to me, and I feel a lot of pressure to raise a healthy man. But also, I think to a certain extent, I'm like this kid's been through so much. When he's struggling and doesn't want to go to school, it's really hard to make him go to school. So I think that's a battle that we battle all the time with, Am I letting him get away with too much, or am I just nurturing him through the trauma?

Leanna McGrath  48:41  
And just meet meeting his needs. Yeah.

Caitlin Roberts  48:43  
Yeah. And people don't understand. You can share the story. I always, at the beginning of the school year, I always let his teachers know, and some of them have just been incredibly supportive. No one, no one's been difficult. Um, it's just that they don't quite get it, you know, they don't get the level of trauma that this kid's been through. And so I want him to be healthy. I want him to have a good, strong, productive life and healthy relationships. But I also want to make sure he's okay. I want to take care of him, so it's a fine balance that we walk. But he's so smart, he's such a smart kid, and he's really funny, and he's very athletic, which did not come from me. He can play any sport and excel at it, and I love seeing him grow and having conversations with him about the world, and he has, you know, just brilliant theories, and is very observant, and it's just really cool to watch. And I just hope every day that he's gonna be okay. I think he is. I really do, and I just really wish he hadn't had to go through everything that he's been through. 

Leanna McGrath  50:05  
Yeah, yeah. Well, Catlin, and no doubt you're doing an amazing job supporting him. I mean, obviously we can't go back and erase the past and the thing that we wish that hadn't happened, but it sounds like you're doing everything you possibly can to support him as best you can.

Caitlin Roberts  50:24  
Yeah, I think I really try to focus on that. And you know, I'm really lucky that I work in a very supportive environment where family comes first, and so if I need to go pick him up, or today, he's actually here in the office with me, you know, he's, he came to work with me today that that's, that's okay. And when I was hurt, initially, it was my work family who stepped in and took AJ, and they had him, you know, he stayed with a couple different people for a couple days at a time, and he celebrated Christmas with, you know, two or three different families, and they all just took him in and loved him and took care of him so that he didn't have to be in a hospital or that, so that my mom could be with me and didn't have to, you know, worry about where he was and what he was doing, and I don't think that's something that I'll ever feel like I've been grateful enough for. I mean, I'm so grateful, and I don't know that there's a way to express that enough to these people who who were there and who helped. But I didn't know then, but my baby was safe, and that was all I could ask for. And so he's a lucky kid, because there's a lot of people who love him and care about him.

Leanna McGrath  51:51  
Yeah, well, I'm curious you said about how people come up to you after and said they didn't now they can recognize you know that they have been in or are in an abusive relationship. So you shared some of the things that you experienced. Is there anything else that you would recommend or that advise people to look out for, you know, signs that they are potentially in an abusive relationship?

Caitlin Roberts  52:19  
Yeah, you know, I think my relationship with Chris developed really fast. There was a lot of what we call love bombing now, everything has a name now. It didn't have a name when I was going through it. It's nice to be able to identify it, but that feeling of like, oh, he he loved me so much. Or, and I'm not saying this doesn't just happen. It isn't just men who are abusers, but that person loves me so much that it's okay when they are not nice to me. If you're making excuses for someone, even if it's only to yourself, which was my my case, I was constantly making excuses to myself. You really need to evaluate, why? Why are you doing that? Because you know that something's not right, the gas lighting. You know, I remember having conversations where I'd say, you've never said that to me, and he would insist, I absolutely said that to you. You're losing it, you're crazy, and you start to believe it when you've heard it. And I think the way I settled for things, you know, that I was okay with not getting married and, oh, you're gonna go stay with your ex and your daughter for a week. Okay. You know it's, it's all about your daughter. Well, probably not, you know. Now, I know. But I just, I think I wanted to have a positive situation so bad that I just allowed so many things to happen to me that weren't, weren't right, they weren't comfortable. Fighting. You know, it's okay to have arguments, but you should never be in a situation where you think, I don't like you. You know, like, maybe I don't like what you did or but you know, you really have to evaluate the level of disagreement that's happening and how that is handled, how are disagreements dealt with or handled? Do you feel like you're not enough? Because your partner should always make you feel like you're more than enough. You are the best thing ever. And I know I was constantly feeling like I just need to do this and he'll he'll like me a little more, or I just need to say these things, and then he'll like me a little more. And even if he acted like he did, it was short lived. He never actually changed the way he felt about me. He just would be a little nicer for a little bit, and then it all flipped back. So, you know, I think, I think it's really important that people understand not just what to watch for, not just, you know, these are the things that you should have a heads up. But what does a healthy relationship look like? Where? What should you expect from the relationship? So I try to share all pieces, all that full circle, so we can look at the good and the bad, but like, once you recognize that things aren't great, that's that's wonderful, but then how do you get to the next step? Because you want to be happy, you want to find that.

Leanna McGrath  55:35  
Yeah, well, my last question is I'm just curious if you have any advice that you'd want to share, or anything you'd want to say to the folks listening, any biggest things you've learned, or anything like that, as we wrap up.

Caitlin Roberts  55:52  
Sure, take care of yourself, especially as moms, as women, we're so used to taking care of everyone else, and you have to take care of yourself, and don't forget about your needs and your desires and make sure that those are being met. Don't be afraid to speak up if you see a friend who is in a situation that doesn't seem healthy. My friends were all surprised. They're like, Oh, we, you know, we thought he was great, because I hid so much of it. But then when they looked back, they were able to, you know, peel back the layers of the onion a little bit, and they were like, oh, yeah, I did see that. And so not that you have to dissect your friends relationships, but just be aware of some of these behaviors. And if you see repetition, if you see a pattern, don't be afraid to say something. I know that a lot of times it's going to be met with resistance and denial, but once a person knows that they have an ally and a support, it makes it a little bit easier and just to know that there's someone. I went with a friend to get a restraining order against her husband, and that wasn't an easy thing for her to do, but she knew that I was a safe person to help her do that, and that was such an honor to me to be able to go with her and be part of that. So I think, yeah, my advice is just, just be aware. Don't be afraid to say anything and take care of yourself.

Leanna McGrath  57:34  
Yeah. Well, thank you so much. And you mentioned resources. I'd love to link some resources in the show notes for anyone who might need them. What are some of your favorites?

Caitlin Roberts  57:45  
joinonelove.org is a great one, and the National Domestic Violence Hotline is another. They have a website. They have a 1-800 number, but they also have a website where you can chat with someone, and they have a lot of resources available, and then I always like to share local resources. So every community now has domestic violence resources. Here in Eugene, it's called the Hope and Safety Alliance, but it's easy to find with a quick Google search. But nationally, I really like one love and the National Domestic Violence Hotline.

Leanna McGrath  58:23  
Wonderful, and you are doing speaking about your story, right? Can you tell us where to find you or connect with you for that?

Caitlin Roberts  58:31  
Yeah, I work with an agency called for college for life, and so I'm on their website, forcollegeforlife.com, go to the website there and search for me and find out information about booking, and I I'm open to coming to speak to an audience or developing workshops to work with a smaller group. It's really important to me to share the message.

Leanna McGrath  58:58  
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, I love that you're taking such a terrible experience and turning it into something positive for the world. That is very Caitlin of you.

Caitlin Roberts  59:10  
Thank you. I really appreciate that. And you know, I honestly I wouldn't know any other way. You know, I don't know what else I would do. So.

Leanna McGrath  59:19  
Yeah, well, thank you so much, Caitlin, for sharing your story and being so open and honest with us. And I just like you said, the goal is just if you could, we can help one person, if someone is listening to this, who recognizes themselves in your story, and it compels them to take action or make a change or have a conversation or look for resources, then that is my hope, and I know yours too.

Caitlin Roberts  59:46  
Yeah, definitely. And feel free to reach out to me, and I would be happy to be a sounding board for anyone. But thank you, Leanna, I really appreciate this opportunity. 

Leanna McGrath  59:57  
Yeah, and I appreciate you. Thank you, cat. And thank you so much everyone for tuning in today, and we hope you all have a wonderful week.

Leanna McGrath  1:00:11  
Thanks so much for tuning in to the executive coach for moms podcast. Please like, subscribe or follow the show so you'll be notified when the next episode is available. I hope you'll join me again next time. Take care. 

Transcribed by https://otter.ai