What Does it Mean to be Strong? Navigating Grief & Redefining Strength After Loss - with Kami Wernimont

Leanna Laskey McGrath  0:04  

Welcome to The Executive Coach for Moms Podcast where we support women who are attempting to find balance and joy while simultaneously leading people at work and at home. I'm your host, Leanna Laskey McGrath, former tech exec turned full time mom, recovering perfectionist and workaholic and certified executive coach. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  0:27  

Hi everyone. Welcome back to the show. Today I'm sharing an amazing conversation I had with Kami Wernimont. This is the third October in a row that she has joined me on the podcast to honor Pregnancy and Infant Loss Awareness Month. And Kami has an amazing story. If you want to hear her story about her two pregnancy losses and why she created her nonprofit Let the Light In, then you can go back and listen to episode 17. Last year, she gave us an update on her experience and how it's been for her of running a nonprofit that's really mission-oriented and also raising three children, and that is back in episode 67 and today, we are talking a lot more broadly about how we navigate grief and how we take care of ourselves, and what does it mean to be strong, and what are our own definitions of that, and what is our society's definitions of that? And I just love this conversation, and I know that you will too. Thank you for joining me. Enjoy.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  1:42  

I am very excited to introduce today's guest, Kami Wernimont. She is back. She's been here the last two years, and she comes every October for a very special month. So let me tell you a little bit about her. Kami Wernimont is the founder and president of a 501c3 nonprofit organization Let the Light In. She is passionate about helping women navigate the winding journey to and through motherhood. Kami is a certified life coach and miscarriage doula with a business marketing and event planning background. Kami and her husband live in Ohio with her two boys and rainbow girl. Welcome, Kami. 

Kami Wernimont  2:20  

Thanks for having me back. I love coming back here every time. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  2:24  

I love having you. Your episodes are some of the most popular on this podcast, and so maybe people are craving hearing more about this topic, or maybe they just love hearing from you. I love having you on here, and obviously my listeners love having you on here too. So I'm glad you're back. 

Kami Wernimont  2:39  

Thank you. Thank you all. It's a topic that's not talked about enough, so thank you for giving it, giving us a platform to to speak our truths and to talk about the really hard stuff. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  2:50  

Yeah, what I appreciate about talking with you is that you have such just a beautiful way of being vulnerable and authentic and like going deep on tough topics, and it's like you're willing to go there, and you just bring so much grace. And it's just like, beautiful how you talk about it. So.

Kami Wernimont  3:13  

Thank you. My motto from the beginning of all of this has been find comfort in the uncomfortable, because I feel like I am a walking trigger warning for most people, and so I've had to sort of not tiptoe around it, not tiptoe around the ideas of talking about miscarriage and pregnancy loss and the depths of grief that go along with it. When people ask me what I do, I have to tell them, right? I try to approach it from that standpoint.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  3:42  

Yeah, well, I remember you've called it in the past the hard heart work. 

Kami Wernimont  3:46  

Yeah.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  3:47  

It is. It's tough stuff to talk about. So two years ago, Kami was just launching her nonprofit Let the Light In. And then last year, we heard an update from Kami on how she is balancing leading a nonprofit with parenting three kids and all the things that come along with all of that. So I would love maybe Kami, if you can just kind of like, give us an update on, Let the Light In, and how it's been going from a business perspective, how it's been going for you two years in.

Kami Wernimont  4:18  

Two, I know, I know it's incredible. So we have, from the very beginning, we hit the ground running really fast, which speaks to the need for more support for women and families experiencing loss. Last night, we hosted our third Wave of Light event, so we're going into our third year, and we partnered with Ohio health hospitals with their loss and healing services to put on an incredible event that hosted about 60 people in person, and we lit candles for the Wave of Light ceremony for about 90 babies. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  4:55  

Wow.

Kami Wernimont  4:55  

As we were lighting those candles and placing the names next to each candle, I was walking by them, and I knew so many of those babies' stories. I had walked with their moms, or I had talked to their grandmas, and some very few instances have talked to the dads. We have grown in an organization where I get to hold so many stories, so bear and bear witness to the beginning of the first loss with there's another loss, or or the rainbow baby, if you will, pregnancy after loss, and navigating that and greeting those babies into the world. And just it's become from start till now, this full circle moment of here's the whole process of it all, and we're not done yet, by any means. And the stories of these women and these babies are not done yet. 

Kami Wernimont  5:50  

So if you remember, we started out, our number one program is our companion support, that's one on one support, where we walk this journey alongside you and navigate it all from resources to perinatal mood and anxiety disorders to just really letting you come in and unload it all, right. We carry all of that inside of us, and it just takes over if we, if we don't get it out. And so we're we like to say we're a safe place to land, and we like to make it a softer landing if we can. So we have our companion support program, and we do that in person and virtual. So you don't have to be in Ohio listeners, you can connect with us, and we're happy to schedule that phone call with you. So we have our one on one companion support program, and then our other event that has grown is our Bereaved Mother's Day brunch, and we've hosted two of them. The first year we we were taking some chairs away from the table so it didn't seem empty. We had about 40 to 50 women there to honor them for Bereaved Mother's Day. And this past May, we sold out, and then we added chairs to the tables, and then we sold out again, and so we're looking for a bigger venue for that. But what has been incredible in that is the community that is just you walk in and your shoulders just fall, you have these like, it's like, oh, I can finally exhale, because these people get me. I don't even know that woman sitting at two tables down, but I know she gets me. She knows exactly where my heart is, and so it's been incredible to bear witness to the community that is rising up and the resources the other organizations and providers that are I always envision us sort of locking arms and rallying around them and and just being the heart of that community. My favorite event by far. Oh, it's so touching. It's so intentional. Every everything from the name cards to where people are sitting to the centerpieces to the speaker, it's all very intentional. 

Kami Wernimont  7:51  

So we are, at this point, sort of looking at, Okay, what's next? What's next for Let the Light In? And so one we want to, of course, strengthen what we have and continue to broaden our reach, but our goal from the very beginning is to support the whole family, right? So that means the dads, siblings and even grandparents, because there's not enough resources out there for any of them. And so in 2026 we are going to start. One of our volunteers is putting together care packages for siblings, for younger elementary age siblings, to try to help parents. It's for the children, but also to help those parents sort of explain what's going on in a way that's appropriate for kids. And so we're working with a couple of therapists to help gather those resources for the parents and then some comfort items for the kids, and so we're starting to branch out and sort of see, Okay, what's next, what pillars are next for us? But it's been a wild ride for sure. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  8:51  

Yeah, how's it been for you? 

Kami Wernimont  8:53  

Breathtaking. I don't know if we mentioned this already or not, but October is Pregnancy and Infant Loss Awareness Month, and it feels like it's the year of October. There's so much going on for the loss community, which is a good thing, because there's a lot of options for people to participate, should they want to. But I am finally at the end of some of our events for the month, and sort of winding it down. And it's like, okay, I need a minute to like, to just take all this in and sort of process where we've been and where we're going and where we are right now, and sort of just reflect on it. It's been beautiful and it's been heartbreaking, and it's been overwhelming and it's been exciting, and it's really just a mix of all the emotions, and October has been full. The last two years have been full. So.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  9:44  

Yeah.

Kami Wernimont  9:44  

I'm feeling really good about where we're headed. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  9:46  

Well, that's wonderful. Well, I'm so glad that there's someone like you to do this work, because it's hard. It's like you said, it's hard, hard work. Obviously it's much needed, as you're seeing as your community is growing and growing probably so many women. Maybe part of the reason why so many people listen to your episodes is because pregnancy and infant loss impacts so many women and people and so it's amazing that you've created this community to rally around them. 

Kami Wernimont  10:17  

I have to say, I didn't do it alone. We have a great board of directors. There are nine of us now. We just added another person, and she's actually starting our advisory committee, or advisory board, and so that is separate from the act, from the board of directors, who's more hands on a decision making, but the advisory board is the group of professionals that's sort of helping us, feed the info, feed us the information that we need help us make sure that we're on top of research that where you may not be seeing come across our desk and what's in their offices, like, what are they seeing out in the community? How can we help fill those needs? And so we're growing on that respect, and we're bringing them in for the to have those hard conversations. And we've also had some incredible volunteers that just come in and make our special events happen, and our fundraising events, and just the connection, and it's just, it is. It's linking arms and saying, Okay, let's do this. And then the other loss organizations, especially the ones around Central Ohio, that we've gotten to know so well, we've been able to collaborate and just and work together and hold each other up and say, Hey, I have your back. Like, what do you need? I'm here. Or, Hey, do you know the answer to this question? Do you have a resource for this? And so it's really been that linking arms and leaning on one another, and we couldn't do this alone at all.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  11:39  

Yeah, well, so we've been talking on the podcast this season about taking care of yourself, and I think for women, for moms, high achieving moms, this is so challenging because we have so many other people in our care. We have our kids, our families. A lot of us are also taking care of aging parents. We've got our teams at work. We've got, you know, our communities, whatever we're doing in the community, and so there are so many people in our care that it's hard for us to remember to take care of ourselves. And so we've been really focusing on that a lot. And I would love to hear from your perspective about through the loss process, through the grief process, how would you recommend that we take care of ourselves? 

Kami Wernimont  12:31  

I first want to say that I was worried you were going to ask me how I'm taking care of myself during this process, because I was going to say no list of things I need to do, and now that all these events are over, but really, what I remind people of as as they're navigating grief and navigating loss is to find ways to nourish themselves, and I think of like wrapping yourself up in a blanket and just it's, it's the warm mug of tea, and it's the comfort party food, and I'm always thinking in cozy terms, or really just wrapping yourself up and being very delicate and gentle with yourself, making sure that you are moving in some capacity, also, whether that's walking or stretching, or, you know, just remembering to unclench your jaw and bring your shoulders down. 

Kami Wernimont  13:20  

The other thing I always remind people of is to find your anchor. When things feel like they're spiraling out of control, what what is your anchor? What is going to bring you back down to earth and sort of ground your feet and sort of lock in to remind you of what is true, right? And to sort of bring you back to center? And that's different for everyone. Those are some of the the biggest things, and making sure that they are talking to someone, whether that's us or a friend, or having that strong support network, you have to to get it out of your system, if you will, like you have to get that anger or that fear or that sadness, you have to you have to cry, you have to write, you have to speak. You have to move one of those things, or a combination of those things, because all of that trauma and experience lives in the body. And so the more we hold on to it and try to stuff it down, the more tense we get and our shoulders get tight and we can't move, and it it really impacts the way that we just are physically right. And so we have to find a release of the pressure valve and just sort of let some of it out. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  14:25  

Yeah. Are there other ways that you have found, either in your own experience with grief and loss, or through walking with others? 

Kami Wernimont  14:33  

Yeah. So I mean, talking is one way. For me, when I was navigating my grief, I did a lot of writing, whether I shared some of it or didn't share some of it, but I did a lot of writing, and that sort of helped me get the words out, and then also sort of process my feelings, my emotions, what I'm going through, and sort of see it on paper, and kind of step back and be like, Okay, this, this is what's going on here. So writing for me is very therapeutic. And some people love to move and love to, you know, go to the gym, and they feel like that's a good release for them, or they go for a walk, or they get back into their garden, or they're doing work with the ground, you know, like whatever it is that sort of helps connect you. And feels like home, like, feels like you can relax, feels like you can just be and let things go. I'm not saying let the loss go. Like, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is let the intensity sort of settle. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  15:32  

Yeah, and I guess I'm thinking about, like, what if someone doesn't know what that is for them? 

Kami Wernimont  15:40  

We talk about it. What's different about coming into our space versus going into counseling or therapy or something like that, is we're we're more about the here and now of what you're experiencing. We're not trying to diagnose or fix or move you necessarily out of where you are, but more so process where you are and help you get to where you want to go by walking with you, not pulling you along. Both have their place, right? And some people do see us and counseling, some people see us, and some people see counseling like it's all the things, like you take what you need, but for that person that may not know, we can sort of sit here and talk through it, and it's just getting me getting curious about, you know, what brings you back to center, what makes you feel grounded? What helps you stand a little taller? What is that creative thing that you do that brings you peace? One person makes quilts, you know, she she sews and makes quilts and another and was harvesting her garden and says, you know, when I'm out there harvesting, you know, the vegetables that we've grown, I feel like I'm doing something with my hands, and I'm just it allows me to sort of let things settle a bit, or planting flowers, or it's just finding your outlet. And I think sometimes too, in that moment where we're all we're so caught up in what is happening and the heaviness of the grief and just the whole experience, that we sort of forget some of those things, the simple things that brought us such comfort before, right? So it's like, okay, what brings you sort of this joy. Or where do you go when life is overwhelming? What do you typically do? What would you have done pre this? And can we work that back in? Or do we find something new?

Kami Wernimont  17:34  

It's easy to feel everything is swirling around you, and it's hard to catch on to something, and it's also easy to feel like nothing matters anymore. So many times we talk about once loss happens, like we're here standing still and everything else is just still moving. Why is everything else still moving and moving so fast when I'm in slow motion and nothing matters anymore? You know, the dishes in the sink, they don't matter anymore. The exercise plan I was on, it doesn't matter anymore, because I'm here and I no longer have what I thought I was going to have. But that's a very complex answer where there's no like number one thing you can do, but it's finding, it's finding what's right for you as an individual, knowing that this works for one person or this works, it's just the start of the conversation. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  18:28  

Yeah. Well, I'm curious, just in general, like, how you think about grief, because you said earlier about, like, feeling all the emotions this October, and I think that for so many people, grief is like one of those ones that it's like, Oh, I do not want to have to feel that right, like it's like the worst emotion to feel. Many of us, you know might believe, but like you are like, No, I'm gonna create a career where I am deep into with grief every day of the week, and so I guess I'm curious how you think about it, and what makes you lean into it, rather than running away from it, or shying away from it, as I think so many people want to or try to.

Kami Wernimont  19:22  

After we had our losses, I was trying to get past it, right? I didn't want to feel it. I didn't want to feel it. I wanted to move on. I wanted it to be done. I wanted to do check off the list of all the things I was supposed to do to help myself heal and feel better. And it's like, Okay, I did all the things I checked the list. Is it my turn yet and ways that it showed up in my body by shoving that down and not actually taking the time to process it and work through it in a healthy way, I had experienced depression, anxiety, panic attacks. My body was just tense all the time, and I sort offell apart before I could be put back together, and I think that's why now I'm such a huge champion of let's navigate this together, because when I was experiencing loss, I didn't have a resource to go to and say, What am I feeling? None of this makes sense. It wasn't until I did my miscarriage doula certification, and it talked about the postpartum period after a loss, and it's like, oh, some of this anxiety and depression comes along with the territory. You know, not that it makes it better, but I could put a name to it as to why I was experiencing it, and that just wasn't there for me during that time. 

Kami Wernimont  20:36  

And so what I tend to say is we are creating the resource we all wish we had, being able to freely talk to somebody and have them look at us and say, Listen, there's a lot going on here, and it's all valid. What you're feeling is valid, and your grief is complex, and it's made a little bit harder by that postpartum period, and the way that your body is changing and then navigating pregnancy after a loss, there's a lot going on there too. There's increased chances of perinatal mood and anxiety disorders with pregnancy after loss. There's just so many layers, and it's not talked about, right? So I tend to lean in to the grief and comfort and the uncomfortable, because I don't want anyone to go through this feeling like they're alone, that their feelings and their experience isn't valid. There's a constant comparison of but this person had this loss at this time, and my five week loss, you know, is very different, and maybe I shouldn't be grieving this much, but I'm heartbroken and just trying to minimize themselves and their their grief. And then there's society, who out there, the world is telling us to move on because we're so uncomfortable with it, we want to say anything we can to make people feel better and be like, Okay, it's gonna be all right. You you can get pregnant again. We don't know that. You know, everybody's so quick to rush us. 

Kami Wernimont  22:09  

And I guess my overarching view on grief now, as opposed to before, is that it's something that is always a part of us. And in the very beginning it's huge. There's this huge cloud over top of us, or there's like, everything feels dark, and everything is in slow motion, and I you can't find your way through it, right? It's like wandering through the wilderness in the dark without a lantern. But as we sort of get closer to it and we start to look at it, our eyes start to focus, and we get to know what's around us. We get to know how to comfort our grief, how to see it as a part of us, as and then really love on it and nurture it and comfort it, and going back to like nourishing yourself, and that becomes part of you. I remember there's an image in the book, What's Your Grief?, about the big cloud of grief in the beginning, and then it sort of ebbs and flows and becomes part of you. I can't remember if it's like the sweater that you're wearing or like a friend that you're holding their hand, but you learn to walk with it, right? I want to people to know that they don't have to walk with it alone. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  23:20  

Yeah, yeah. I think it's so poignant what you're saying about like, that society so quick to rush us. And I think because we've internalized that message, like we're so quick to rush ourselves as well. 

Kami Wernimont  23:34  

Yeah.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  23:34  

I mean, to your point of your experience, it's like, where's the checklist of things that I need to go through in order to get through this, get over this, get past this, so that I can get on with my life. And it's like, then, on top of feeling the grief, we're also feeling embarrassment or shame or guilt or something, because we're like, it's taking too long. I should be able to move through this faster, right? I think especially for high achievers whenever, you know, we're so used to checking off the list and setting our sights on something and, you know, setting a goal and attaining it, whenever we get to that like sticky, mucky place of grief, where it's dark and we're wandering around and it's like, on top of the grief itself, we're also judging ourselves for not moving through it as fast as we want to, or as efficiently or as well as this other person over here. Do you see that a lot? 

Kami Wernimont  24:33  

Yes, yeah. I've had several people say, like, is anybody else taking this as hard as I am, like, is it this hard for everyone, or is that just me? Am I like, losing my mind here what's going on and and I always reassure them that, no, you are not alone in this. Like, this happens to the best of us, out of nowhere, in the grocery store or at a family outing or in the park, when you see somebody else that's pregnant or somebody announces their news, it just kind of hits you, and you fall apart and you're like, I can't do it. There's this great book called bearing the unbearable that talks about the waves of grief and and so for so long, we fight against those waves, right? And we try to push them back, and we can't really push them back, but when we learn how to ride with them, that's when the real, true healing and processing begins. That's one that I always recommend. 

Kami Wernimont  25:22  

And there's this other side of grief too that we don't we also don't talk about. And we're in this center where Tug of War, where we're like, I want to move on, but then moving on so quickly makes it so final, so final and and somebody else had said to me, like, there will come a day when I'm the only one that remembers. There will come a day when I'm the only one that remembers my baby, because people move on so quickly and they forget. And we were talked about, how do you find peace in that moment? I have to be okay with the fact that I will be the only one that will remember. And so we're holding on. It's like we're almost holding on to grief in that way, like, if I move on too quickly, does that make me feel like, does that make this less than, like it's so complex that it's such a tug of war, but not just linear. It's like, all directions of this tangled web where it pulls at one thing and it gets to another. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  26:18  

Yeah. And I think we're always searching for like, what is the right thing? What is the right amount, what is the right amount of time to grieve? What is the right way to do it? Right? What are the right steps to take? My first question to you is like, what are the right things we should do to process grief, right? Like our brains are so trained to look for that like, because we want to be efficient. 

Kami Wernimont  26:40  

Give me the five steps.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  26:42  

Yeah, exactly. We don't have time for all this. Like, we've got kids and we've got jobs and we've got so many things to do, and it's like, if I could just find the right thing that's so much faster.

Kami Wernimont  26:54  

But it's got to be the right thing for you, because it's what helps you, is not something that's going to help me, you know, we process difficult things differently.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  27:06  

I think too. I mean, the parenting, it's like, what's the right way to parent? The answer, like, we didn't all come with, like, manuals of how to handle, you know, like, hey, Kami, here's your personalized script. 

Kami Wernimont  27:23  

Here's your handbook.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  27:25  

Right? Of how you are going to best deal with grief and how you are going to best parent, and how you are going to best work, right? All the things like, we're always looking for that right thing. And I think that it's so fascinating, because as humans, like we can certainly study best practices and not reinvent the wheel in some places. And also, we're all unique. We have to find our ways of doing it. And I think to your point, we have to believe our experience.

Kami Wernimont  27:57  

Yeah.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  27:57  

Right, like we have to understand that it's valid. And this is one of the things that I talked about in the Taking Care of Yourself series of just like, hey, if you have a need that is valid, we don't need to, like, look around and say, like, does she have this need too? Maybe I'm too needy. I don't know. It's just like, this is your experience, and it's okay to have this experience. And I think similarly in grief, if you're having you know whatever you need in that it is valid.

Kami Wernimont  28:26  

One of the things I talk to people about from the very beginning, whether that is when they just first find out that there's not a heartbeat, or they just got the news, like whatever time frame that may be. Wish for them, my goal for them, is that they will go through this experience unapologetically, meaning that they will go through and stand up, advocate for themselves, which is hard to do when you're in such a delicate place, but advocate for yourself and what you need. You need additional time off? Let's figure it out you want to experience holding your baby after a stillbirth? Make that happen. You want footprints and handprints? Make that happen. And there are great resources out there to make that happen. You want to hold a memorial. You want to have a burial. You want to have a cremate. Whatever it is that brings peace in your heart, to experience this in a way that you won't look back and say, I wish I would have.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  29:23  

Yeah.

Kami Wernimont  29:23  

Let's do that. And then we, of course, load them up with all the things to be sure, to ask and and making sure that they know what their options are and what's possible, because we don't know what we don't know either. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  29:35  

Yeah, but I do think, to your point earlier, of like, that we want to rush people through things because of our societal discomfort with it. I also think we do this thing in our society where it's like, well, she had a loss and needed X number of days or weeks off, and this other person had a loss and she needs double that time, like, is she not as strong as that other person, right? And there's kind of like this like-

Kami Wernimont  30:04  

Or this other one came back in like two days because she wanted to.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  30:09  

Right! Yeah. So then it's almost like we put people on, like a hierarchical like, this one is better than, or stronger than, or can handle more or whatever, right? And I think, also, as high achievers, like we value being able to, like, quote, unquote, handle it.

Kami Wernimont  30:26  

Yeah, it's a superpower, right? Like we think it is. It's really like, just laying us down and we're exhausted, but we like to see it as a superpower. I can do it all, but yeah, that that comparison comes in often in our conversations, too, where we feel like my grief isn't as valid as this person over here, or just just the comparison of, you know, who's grieving more, who has the right to grieve more? And the reality is, is that there's no need for comparison. They are coexisting and different. I had this heartbreaking loss at five weeks, and I had this heartbreaking loss at 28 weeks, or I lost my son at three months old. It's all unimaginable heartbreak, even with one person who had two different types of losses, those two experiences are very different. They change who we are as a person. Oftentimes, what happened is a traumatic event in some way, shape or form, and we cannot put a comparison or allow ourselves to compare with one another. What we need to do is bring another chair to the table and extend grace for both of those people, because they are doing the very best they can, and there's no easy like, hey, just don't do it. Like, don't compare. But I think the solution to it is compassion at all levels. Take away the judgment of what you think they should be doing, and just lean in and listen, to understand, not to respond. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  31:51  

Yeah, you mentioned you started Brene Brown's new book, one of my favorites as well. I haven't started the new book yet, and she talked about strength, and what does it mean to be strong? And I think in grief, you know, when we're walking with grief, we think like, well, I'm strong if I can get through this fast, if I can keep going with all my other responsibilities while I'm doing right, like, whatever kind of requirements we put in our head about what it means to be strong in this moment. And I'm curious your thoughts on what does it mean to be strong? 

Kami Wernimont  32:29  

I first want to say we have so many people telling us that we're so strong, right? Like, you're so strong. I don't know how you're doing it, or, you know, whatever it is, there's always like, Oh, I just, you're just so unbelievably strong. And usually it's like, I don't think I am. I'm here because I don't have another choice, right? I'm here going through the motions, and that's about the best that I can do. I don't see that as strong, but you see that as strong, okay? But I've had people say that. I'm tired of people telling me I'm strong. I don't feel strong. I feel like I'm falling apart. But I did have the discussion not long ago with someone who was like, I'm trying to be strong. I don't know what kind of strong I need to be right now. I don't know what that looks like. And I was listening to Brene Brown's book this morning, lots of props to her today. And she was talking about for stability. And it took me back to a conversation that I had with another mom who when she came in through one of our conversations, I said, What are you looking for? What do you want? I want to be well and sturdy for myself and for whatever comes next. And she took charge of nourishing herself and really building back her strength, both mentally and physically. And like that was her goal. But I always think of her when she said, like, when I think of somebody like saying that they want to be well and sturdy, or that they want to be strong, or I think of your feet firmly planted with your you know that that Super Woman pose with your arms on your hands, on your hips and your shoulders back and your head high, and like, I can do this, and the biggest part of that is your feet being firmly planted and grounded and your core being strong holding you up. 

Kami Wernimont  34:09  

And I think about that too when the waves of grief come crashing in and the heartbreak and the tears and that moment where you feel like everything's falling apart, it's where are your feet? Where is your core? How do you strengthen those muscles to be able to withstand the storm, to take whatever's coming at you? And I think it's really getting to know yourself in the process being able to say, I can do this, but I'm not willing to do that, to set some of those, those boundaries and having the difficult conversations. That is where I feel like the strength through all of this is it's not putting on the face and pretending to be okay all the time, like that. That is a skill. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  34:55  

It's a well honed skill that many of us have.

Kami Wernimont  35:01  

We are so good at it. We are so good at it. But even with that, like that's a skill, and going back and taking the time you need to recuperate from that, I think those are all signs of strength. You may not be ready to stand in that pose with your head held high just yet, but you know how to nourish yourself to get there. And what our job is as companion support is to sort of hold up that mirror and say, All right, who are you and who have you become through all of this, because you're changed forever. This is part of your story. I'm finding women that are still processing grief from 20 years ago, the loss of a loved one in their family, from their grandmother, or that their mom experienced that they didn't have room to grieve, to process, they were told to move on, and we're still working through those things. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  35:51  

Yeah, I think it's so fascinating to notice these things and then just see like how our society has come to be and is set up, right, like that this is what we do expect others and ourselves to just move forward as fast as possible. The faster, the better. 

Kami Wernimont  36:09  

That's what strong used to be, right? 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  36:11  

Let's go. 

Kami Wernimont  36:11  

Get back up. Dust off. Fix your face. Let's go. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  36:15  

Yeah, and I, just as you're talking about like, you know, people processing grief from 20 years ago. I'm just thinking like, this is not something that we learn in school. What a gift to give to our children, but like when we learn this. 

Kami Wernimont  36:29  

I was just thinking about the other day, honestly, compassionate communication should be part of core curriculum. Should be in there. How do you talk with people with compassion and care and see them as people like let's bring that back to humanity. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  36:48  

Maybe that's Let the Light In future. Let's educate the future so that we can take care of ourselves and our friends and loved ones.

Kami Wernimont  37:00  

The give and the take of relationships and just seeing people for who they are and what they're going through, and also being able to be on that receiving end. Oh, that's a whole other topic, but, but, yeah, I don't know that that compassionate communication course is in our future, per se, but I am happy to help fuel that process. If anybody wants to jump in, I'm here. Go back to my communication studies roots and bring that about. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  37:28  

Yeah, I love that. Well, Kami, is there anything that I haven't asked you about that you're feeling really compelled to talk about?

Kami Wernimont  37:35  

I think the biggest thing I want to make sure that people know and take away is just be, be gentle with those around you. There's so much going on in the world, and there's so much going on behind closed doors you have no idea. And so if you see someone that looks like they're struggling, it's probably because they're struggling, and could use either a listening ear or just some that kind compassionate communication of, how are you, and be ready to listen. And like I said earlier, be ready to listen without response, but to understand, without trying to fix, but to understand and say, I see you. I think that's the biggest gift we can give anyone. And also, if you do know of somebody that is going through loss, navigating even infertility, pregnancy, infant loss, all of those journeys that are we're all told that are supposed to come so easy to us, and they're not just find your way of being there for them. Extend a hand notice when the day is hard, and just try to be a little more gentle. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  38:37  

Yeah, I love that. I think the first thing you said about like, if you see someone who looks like they're struggling and my immediate thought was like, or if you see someone who doesn't look like they're struggling at all because they're working so hard to mask it.

Kami Wernimont  38:52  

Yeah, I reached out to someone yesterday because I took a lot of pictures of our candles, our Wave of Light, and I sent a picture of The candle that we lit on their behalf, and she was telling me about how she busied herself all day, like I just needed to not fall apart today, and so I packed my schedule full, and thank you for this moment, and to that person, I want to say, give yourself grace. It's okay to pack your schedule once in a while and make the day busy, but also make time for the quiet and it might be uncomfortable, it will be and you'll feel things that you don't want to be feeling, but if you get to know those feelings, you will truly find comfort within yourself. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  39:30  

Well, Kami, where can people find you find Let the Light In if they you know need to reach out for support, how would they do that? 

Kami Wernimont  39:38  

Step one is our website. Everything there leads you back to connecting with me, leads you to our social media pages and our companion support resources. We also have a new document that I created a few months ago called How to Support Bereaved Parents, and we didn't even get into that, but it's sort of your mini guidebook as to how to support a loved one going through this loss, and the first step of that is understanding their grief, understanding where they're coming from, and then finding the tangible acts of kindness that you can sort of extend to them. So all of that, and more, all of our events, everything is on our website, and that is at LTLI.org So Let the Light In, but L, T, L, I.org and then our social media pages are there too. We're on Facebook and Instagram. I keep being told I'm supposed to be on tik tok, so we'll see. We'll get there one step at a time. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  40:36  

Yeah, I love it, and I love that you created that guide. Because I remember, in our first episode, we talked about how to support a co worker, or, you know, someone who maybe is on your team. So if anyone is experiencing that, I would recommend going back to Kami's first episode from two years ago, October of 2023 because we talked about that and and then, of course, now you have the guide, which is amazing. 

Kami Wernimont  41:00  

Yeah, I need to create one that is for that how to support a co worker. I just wrote that down. I need to put that one together too. So, yeah, thanks for that. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  41:08  

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being here. I love this conversation. I just appreciate you. I appreciate the work you're doing in the world, and I appreciate you coming here to share it with us on the podcast. 

Kami Wernimont  41:18  

Thank you so much. Thank you.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  41:20  

All right. Well, thank you everyone so much for tuning in, and we'll see you all next week. Bye, bye. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  41:25  

If you're loving what you're learning on this podcast, I want to invite you to come join me for the executive mom reset. We offer both one on one and group coaching formats, and our next group is starting in October 2025. I created the executive mom reset to help high achieving moms feel less anxious, more competent and more in control of their lives. Instead of feeling like you're being pulled in 100 different directions, you'll learn how to pause, reset and approach challenges with clarity and confidence. You'll stop running on autopilot, stop second guessing yourself all the time, and stop letting stress, guilt and overwhelm dictate your day. You'll walk away with the tools and the confidence that you can use every day to feel stronger, more empowered and more in alignment with the life you want to be living. Head on over to coachleanna.com to learn more and to get signed up. I really hope to see you there.