Unboxing Barbie: A Discussion of Gender Equality, Empowerment, and Self Identity - with Laura Laskey

Leanna McGrath  0:08  
Welcome to the executive coach for moms podcast where we support women who are attempting to find balance and joy, while simultaneously leading people at work and at home. I'm your host Leanna Lasky McGrath, former tech exec turned full time mom, recovering perfectionist and workaholic, and certified executive coach. 

Leanna McGrath  0:29  
Hi, everyone! Welcome back to the show. Thanks so much for joining me today. I have a special treat for you today, my sister is here, my baby sister Laura. And we saw the Barbie movie the other day. And we walked out of the theater and we were just kind of like stunned into silence alone. Like trying to process what we had just experienced. And we felt like it would be fun to just kind of do a little debrief on a podcast episode. So I'm excited to welcome Laura to the podcast. Laura, do you want to say hi to everybody and tell everybody who you are?

Laura Laskey  1:12  
Hi, everybody. I'm a mom of two, I am constantly trying to pursue my dreams of homesteading, while also acting as general manager at the company where I work, and I don't typically watch movies and think, hmm, I need to think about that and debrief. But this one just really, I think had a lot to consider. So I'm excited to kind of review all of that.

Leanna McGrath  1:40  
Yes, and I think a lot of people listening are parents. And I'm just going to note that if you have multiple kids, I just think it's fun to like see it in adulthood, how the kids raised in the same place can just be so different. But similarly, like Laura said, we both kind of walked out of there. And we had a lot of that. So we want to talk through all of those. And when I say all of those, we won't get to everything today, because I think this movie had so many different layers and arcs and just ways that we could go. But we're gonna kind of hit on some of the highlights that we wanted to dive a little bit more into. 

Leanna McGrath  2:18  
I do want to share that there are going to be spoiler alert. So if you have not seen the Barbie movie and you plan to you might want to pause and come back to this episode after you've seen the movie. Also, this is just our reflections because I think whether you enjoy the movie or not, it has a lot of thought provoking content. And so that's what we're going to be focusing on. We're going to jump into kind of going through the plot. 

Leanna McGrath  2:45  
So the first thing that we thought was really interesting was the idea of Barbie land. Barbie land is a world where women are in power. And men are kind of an afterthought, it specifically says like can exist only to be noticed by Barbie. So the whole Supreme Court was full of women, there was a woman president, I think also, it only showed the women like their houses. And at one point someone asked like, where to can sleep. And she was like, I don't actually know, because it's just so woman centric. And so I wanted to talk a little bit about just kind of that role reversal. What were your thoughts about that, Laura?

Laura Laskey  3:25  
Well, I suppose in that sense, it could be a matriarchy, although I typically think of that word is very like motherly leadership rather than, like just female. But technically, that's what it is. And in the way that Barbie, you know, is meant to show us all these different roles that women can be like, just from the toy that Mattel puts out. In that sense. I was watching it thinking like, Oh, that would be so great. All these roles are filled by women, you know, be filling these roles. But I will say the whole hen just only existing to be noticed by Barbie isn't ideal to meet anybody being just completely irrelevant is either realistic or ideal. Yeah.

Leanna McGrath  4:19  
But can you relate to Ken at all in that role? I mean, of course, there was some satire and maybe exaggerating a little bit really, if we think about the history of women, not in this century, for the most part, though, it still exists. It's kind of like we existed to be married off, right, like our parents would get the dowry and like we would be essentially sold to the is better. And so it was like we were trying to catch the eye of a man. And that was truly our role.

Laura Laskey  4:54  
Even then it wasn't us catching the eye. It was our dowry.

Leanna McGrath  4:57  
Uh, yeah, well might have been a little bit. Obviously, like Bridgerton is probably not 100% historically accurate?

Laura Laskey  5:10  
No, definitely.

Leanna McGrath  5:12  
But I'm thinking Bridgerton and like that kind of time, Where it was kind of like, in order for me to not end up a quote unquote, spinster, I need to be discovered by a man. Right. So I don't think it's ideal. And I think that it's not that far fetched from the role of the woman in our society, especially a few 100 years ago. And still, I think when we look back on things that were in the past, and we're like, oh, but that's not now. I think we have to remember that, like, it's still kind of like, in our minds, right. Like it's evolved over time. But it's still part of our history has still you know, kind of there a little bit very recent history into it. There are people alive who lived it. Right, and still happens in some cultures today. So, yeah, I thought that was interesting. I felt like Ken was kind of an outward reflection of what was being told to him. It was his job to catch the eye of Barbie, for example. And his existence was there to like kind of support Barbie. It wasn't like he was not the star of the show. And I think it was interesting to kind of see that reflected. It's like he was like the personification of that socialization of you are secondary to the more dominant gender.

Laura Laskey  6:37  
Well even later in the movie, Barbie says, and it's just superfluous. You don't actually need him there. He's just there and extra.

Leanna McGrath  6:49  
Yeah, exactly. And then Ken and Barbie go to the real world. And they notice kind of a stark difference, because they are confronted in Los Angeles with patriarchy, and recognizing that where they are in the real world is not anything like Barbie land, it is the patriarchy. And I want to just kind of say, I know that patriarchy can be a loaded word, because of how it's been used and misused in our society today and politicized. So I just wanted to share, I went to the Googles to find some neutral words about patriarchy. So patriarchy is defined as a system of society or government in which the Father or eldest male is head of the family, and dissent is traced through the male line. Another definition is a social system in which positions of dominance and privilege are primarily held by men. 

Leanna McGrath  7:46  
`So if that's the definition of patriarchy, I think, at least in the United States, that's what we're living in. We have forefathers, we, our government and workplaces were really set up by men and policies were really created through their lenses. And so really, also both the government and workplaces continue to be largely run by men of course, more. Women are making headway but still currently in Congress. 27% of the house are women. 24% of the Senate are women, and only 10% of fortune 500 companies have female CEOs. So we are more represented but still very underrepresented in the highest levels of leadership and where decisions are made. And we've had 46 Male presidents we've yet to see a female president at this point in 2023. Like while we see more women ascending into leadership, the fact that the vast majority of these highest systems of power are run by men. It just means that by definition, we're living in a patriarchal society. And I think some of the depictions whenever they came to Los Angeles, every picture on money is a man's head and Mount Rushmore is made up of four men, right and a bunch of other examples, but I think that it was really interesting. What did you think Laura about the depictions of patriarchy in when they got to Los Angeles in the real world?

Laura Laskey  9:15  
I will I mean, even as another example, at Mattel, the entire board and CEO were men, even though they were you know, in charge of Barbie Leia Yeah. And which to me just really rang out that even though there is this Barbie land of matriarchy and empowered women there are still all these men somewhere in the real world, pulling the strings and making the decisions and and then of course there was the Barbie like feeling unsafe and that just being okay and normal. Just shows like The Power of that that men have Yeah.

Leanna McGrath  10:02  
Yeah. So I think then kind of what happened once they kind of came into the real world is they felt a role reversal. So suddenly Barbie was more in the can role although I don't think that can in Barbie land was like sexualized and kind of made to feel unsafe. I think it was just more like you said superfluous like they were just more ignored which neither is ideal obviously. So I think in that role reversal, then Barbie started to feel like unsafe, whenever she approached the construction workers and thought like, Oh, this is a really safe place because she was used to a group of female construction workers saying empowering things. In Barbie land that was different in the real world, right? The men were not saying empowering things, or doing the cat calling and you know, that kind of thing. And the things that often actually happen in the real world to women. And so yeah, and then I think it was also interesting to see what happened to Ken in the real world.

Laura Laskey  11:09  
Well, he points they both point out that they see people and notice people like looking at them Barbies attention was a lot different from the attention Ken was getting where he said, they look at me. Like they actually look at me and notice in me, and on top of that, they respect me at one point, somebody asks him for the time things oh, she has respect for me. You know, it's just clear that other men around are not like at odds with them. It's more like there's all this empowerment to him. But then just like tearing down a Barbie and sexualizing 

Leanna McGrath  11:46  
Yeah, when he walked past the gym, they were like, Yeah, bro and high fiving each other? Yeah, I think it's interesting, because, like, they both went from one thing to being very noticed. But it was a very different experience for them both right? Because Ken was used to being ignored. So then he started to be noticed. And he was like, Yeah, this is awesome, right. And he was being noticed in a positive way. Whereas Barbie was used to being noticed, right? They all like way, wake up and say hello to each other. All the time. Oh, my gosh, like their arms was been so tired from waving all the time. There was a lot of recognition, but it was all right, kind of empowering recognition, and then to come into the real world and be sexualized or talked down to check. deified. Yeah, yeah. So that's what I mean, I don't think either is ideal, but it's just interesting how it switched for both of them, but in kind of different ways. And so then Ken goes back to Barbie land and takes this idea of patriarchy where men and horses around the world, thanks for whatever reason he grouped in horses, but he turns it into Kendom. And I think that was really interesting. Because, of course, you know, you feel like you kind of get a taste of, oh, this is what it's like to be respected and regarded. And so I want that for myself all the time. And I want that for, for I want other men to experience that. And so I think the idea of taking that back to Barbie land was, like made sense, or was maybe that's how we feel sometimes as women, right? Like, we want to feel that too. But it was like, maybe went pretty far away from Ireland and weigh in the candle with kind of the toxic masculinity. So do you want to talk a little bit about that? 

Laura Laskey  13:42  
Yeah, I mean, it just is interesting, because he was there for one a day or something in the real world. And then he goes back to Barbie land. And by the time Barbie gets back there, he's completely turned it into a patriarchy with lots of toxic masculinity. And all the women are suddenly brainwashed. And, you know, they doubt themselves, and they think that they don't deserve any recognition. And they are just there and serving brewski beers to the men. Because for some reason, that's all they're good for now. But I thought it was really interesting that that happened so quickly. And obviously, like, it's not realistic to think then, you know, in the real world, that anything like that would happen quickly. But I just think, in the real world, we have been fighting for so long as women to have that equality and leadership and otherwise, that it's just interesting to think about the patriarchy being so persistent and so pervasive. It seems like you know, every step forward, there's still some steps back and you can't be afraid minused without somehow being offensive, and so I just I just wonder what it is about the patriarchy that makes it that way. And one thing that I was kind of thinking about in terms of like the role reversal is that Ken didn't actually have a role in Barbie land. He was just superfluous. And but like in a patriarchy, women do have roles. But those roles are not, you know, roles of power, those roles are not autonomous. They're dependent on what a man is willing to allow them to do. And so I wonder if that is why it's so persistent, because there are rules that you can fall into and feel that's your role to fail as a woman. It's not as easy to see that, like the roles that have a say over how things are done. Those leadership roles and roles of power, aren't yours, because you you do have a role.

Leanna McGrath  16:05  
Yeah, it's kind of like, what's coming up for me is the idea of kind of like busy versus productive. It's like, you can go Go, go, go go, right, like you're doing something like Ken wasn't doing anything, his role. His job was beach.

Laura Laskey  16:21  
But he couldn't swim. 

Leanna McGrath  16:23  
You're right. Like he sort of had a role. But what was it? He wasn't contributing in any way. And so yeah, it's like, as women like, we are contributing right to society. It's not like we're just standing at the beach. Watching people drown, but like watching aging, so it feels like we're doing things and we are, but are we making the decisions for our future and for our next generation, not nearly as much as men are at this point in time? Yeah. And I think it was so interesting to see kind of what happened to the men like, they just felt this. I think they even said, like, they felt this level of entitlement and that they deserve this. And it was interesting to see what happened to the women. Like, I think one of the things that really kind of illustrated the change when they were brainwashed was at the beginning. They were given awards, like the Nobel Prize, or I can't remember what exact Awards and the Barbie that received it said, I deserve this. And it was just like, this innate feeling of I am enough. I deserve it. Right. And then whenever the roles reversed, someone got an award. And she was like, Oh, I don't know...

Laura Laskey  17:39  
I mean, how did how did I get here? It must have been Ken you know, like, it wasn't it wasn't me. Ken helped me get here.

Leanna McGrath  17:47  
That's right. Yeah, kind of like relegating her power and autonomy. She was not like, Yes, I deserve this. I was like, huh, that was an accident. I don't know how this happened. Yeah. And so then, the women eventually snap out of it and take their power back. And I think that process to me was kind of the most important takeaway from the movie, in my opinion, because that was where they were at weird Barbie's house and then America Ferrera gave her speech. And that's been quoted in lots of places. And I did want to just read it, because I think this movie has been such a cultural phenomenon, and that it's the highest grossing, female directed movie of all time. And I think it's just amazing. And also, I think you've seen the impact I've seen on social media, like women getting out of toxic relationships and abusive relationships because of this movie, because of them feeling empowered. And I just love to see that love to see that media and kind of entertainment can have that kind of impact on people's lives. I mean, that's amazing. So here's America Ferrera's speech, if you haven't seen the movie, this is where everyone probably teared up and also was like, Yes!

Leanna McGrath  19:02  
It is literally impossible to be a woman, you are so beautiful and so smart. And it kills me that you don't think you're good enough. Like we always have to be extraordinary. But somehow, we're always doing it wrong. You have to be thin, but not too thin. And you can never say you want to be thin. You have to say you want to be healthy. But also you have to be thin. You also have to have money, but you can ask for money because that's crass. You have to be a boss, but you can't be mean you have to lead but you can't squash other people's ideas. You're supposed to love being a mother, but don't talk about your kids all the damn time. You have to be a career woman, but also always be looking out for other people. You have to answer for men's bad behavior, which is insane. But if you point that out, you're accused of complaining. You're supposed to stay pretty for men, but not so pretty, that you tempt them too much or that you threaten other women because you're supposed to be part of this sisterhood. But always stand out and always be grateful but never forget that the system is rigged. So find a way to acknowledge that but also to always be grateful, you have to never get old, never be rude. Never show off, never be selfish. Never fall down, never fail. Never show fear, never get out of line. It's too hard. It's too contradictory. And no one gives you a medal or says thank you. And it turns out, in fact that not only are you doing everything wrong, but also everything is your fault. I'm just so tired of watching myself and every single other woman tie herself into knots so that people will like us. And if all of that is true for a doll, just representing women, then I don't even know. 

Leanna McGrath  20:35  
Ooh, man. I love that speech. It's so true. And, you know, it's interesting, because of course, the critique of this movie is that like, it's to feminist or it's anti men. And I personally didn't think that it was anti men at all. I think it was more showing men in women's roles, and kind of what women go through. And I think that that speech is like such an opportunity for anyone who's curious about what it's like to be socialized as a woman in our society. I love that speech. 

Leanna McGrath  21:08  
And I think that what happened after that speech is that some of the Barbies snapped out of it. And so then that became the key to bringing all of the Barbies back and snapping them out of that brainwashing. And the quote I loved so much I wrote it down, was by giving voice to the cognitive dissonance required of the patriarchy, you robbed it of its power. I thought that was so powerful. And I think that, it's just goes to show that when we talk about it, and we bring the issues to light, then that's when we can really kind of start to reimagine what our world can look like. And also, that's when we start to feel empowered. Because I think a lot of times, we think it's all in our heads, and whenever we hear other women saying that they experienced that, too. And then also, I mean, the me to movement, for example, was so powerful, because it was like, Oh, my gosh, I thought I was the only one and you just feel so alone. And then whenever we hear women talking about it, it can be so empowering, and just putting a voice and words to what we're experiencing.

Laura Laskey  22:11  
One thing that I remember in the movie was America Ferrara's daughter, I think her character's name was Sasha. At one point, she's talking and she says, you know, everybody hates women, men hate women, women hate women. And it's not wrong. A lot of those things in her speech are about you know, you have to do this, but you can't do this. And it can't be like this, it has to be like that. And I think that sometimes we do that to each other one of those things, is you can't talk about it. And I don't know that women have decided you can't talk about it. More men have decided that but either way, I think that's very common, you know, in our society is, well, you might have this problem, but you don't talk about it. Don't air your dirty laundry. Yeah, that's impolite, that could be just ingrained in us all these years to keep us down, maybe. Because it is true that the more you talk about it, and the more you share about it, the more you're able to recognize that one, you're not the only one and to Hey, this is not right. Like this is this needs to change something wrong here. It's something wrong beyond this. 

Leanna McGrath  23:31  
Yeah, it's amazing. Whoever decided like what is lady like, and what is not. If we were to like make a list of all the things that are lady like one is to keep quiet. One isn't to not speak up one right and not complain. So you know, whenever we start to feel these things, then we have this internal battle because we've been taught to keep our mouth shut and not complain. And also I agree, I think the idea that it's not like all male impose, it's our society. So like, we all are ingrained with this socialization men and women. And so whenever a woman is working so hard to stay within the lines in the bounds of like what we're supposed to be. Whenever we see another woman stepping out, it's like, hey, it's kind of like anger, right? And probably some jealousy. But it's kind of like, hey, no, no, no, I've been working my ass off to keep in line. And you're over there stepping out about changing the roles. Yeah, like no, I and so I think that's part of what keeps us in line.

Laura Laskey  24:39  
Yeah. And that's that's why her saying like women hate women like yeah, because when we see other women doing it differently when we've been trying so hard not to and to be successful within the confines of the rules that were allowed. Exactly. Then it can you know, it seems like there is a lot of anger and a lot of resentment and just a lot of like, no, get back in your box.

Leanna McGrath  25:05  
Yeah, literally right. Yeah, for sure. So I do think it's so important. And again, I think if anybody is feeling like, I don't understand feminism, or that it means that like anti men, stepping back for a minute and listening to that speech and just kind of trying to see it from that perspective, there's a lot to learn there, in my opinion about women's experience, then the Barbies end up regaining control, and we'll fast forward to that whole scene with all the machismo and tennis rackets and volleyballs. I actually, I wrote down tennis rackets and volleyball, it's because you laugh so hard.

Laura Laskey  25:45  
It was so absurd and funny.

Leanna McGrath  25:49  
I know. I think it's so much more fun watching movies with people who enjoy the movie. So I hate watching Christmas vacation by myself. I would much rather watch it with dad who's going to like laugh so hard every time to catch.

Leanna McGrath  26:10  
So yeah, so that's, that's another takeaway. See the movie with someone who is gonna enjoy it. There were some super off the wall parts, but and that was one of them. 

Laura Laskey  26:20  
Very amusing!

Leanna McGrath  26:20  
Yeah. I think at the end of that. So basically, like the Ken's took themselves down. So the women regain control and kind of like took back their houses that the Ken's had taken over. And kind of said, but we will give Ken's some representation, right, just a little they like asked to be like, can we have a justice? And they were like, oh, no, not yet. But they gave them like some kind of insignificant roles. I don't remember maybe like social chair, which is often when women get to be on committees. So I thought that was interesting that they chose to go in that direction. What do you think about that whole idea of like, the women taking back their power? And then kind of like, what happens to the Kens after that?

Laura Laskey  27:05  
Well, for one, I mean, I think that they wouldn't have been able to do that, as individuals. They worked together, they created a plan. And they all supported each other in order to make that happen.

Leanna McGrath  27:19  
Yeah, I think that's so important. I think that's how change happens is whenever we start to talk about our shared experiences, say this is not okay. say we'd like something different and come up with together like what that looks like. I think that's a really good point.

Laura Laskey  27:34  
And then also a little bit to my point before about how women are given roles in a patriarchy, that Kens were satisfied with getting these insignificant roles, they were given something right. And I think that's commonly well, okay, we'll accept that. I got something and I don't maybe deserve more, which is that, you know, inner voice and story that we're telling ourselves that isn't necessarily truth.

Leanna McGrath  28:01  
It's like the default. I don't want to say we come into the world with because we're coming in as blank slates. But like, through our socialization and upbringing, we learn that like, here's our place, and here's what we deserve. And it's just so much less than what men are told that they deserve. So like, where men are feeling more entitled to those roles of leadership and to the power, I think we're feeling like, Ooh, I don't deserve that. So there's like just this huge delta, because it's like, we're just trying to be happy with what we've got. And then we get a little bit more and we're like, oh, I don't deserve this. Like, this is an upgrade, but like, there's still so much space between where we're at and where men are feeling like their default is. Yeah, I think it was also really interesting to see Ken at the end, because I had read about oh, this is such a anti male movie. I feel like Ken's ending really prove that untrue, along with lots of other things in the movie, but that was right because it kind of finally he realized like, I'm actually not all of those labels that you put on me. I am Ken. There was like the song ridiculous song in sequence about I think it was called I'm just Ken.

Laura Laskey  29:20  
I am Kenough.

Leanna McGrath  29:25  
I love that. Yeah. And I think that that is such an important kind of liberating thought is that he's not all those things that Barbie and Mattel like projected on him whenever they created, like the matriarchal system, right? Where like the Barbies are in charge in the hands for support purpose. He doesn't like have to take all of that on. And so I think that for me was like, Oh, yes. Like that's what I hope for for us for women, is that we can also recognize that like, we are not all of those things that society has put on us. We are Not all of those labels. We are not the sexualized and objectified versions that society has casted onto us, right? Like we can kind of define ourselves. And I think that, that felt really empowering to me as well. What did you think about that?

Laura Laskey  30:17  
I agree. And Barbie says, you know, maybe it's not Barbie and Ken, maybe it's Barbie, and it's Ken, we are our own people, we do not exist for one another. We are, you know, enough, you know, like, we can be our own individuals without all of those ideas just being forced on to us. And we don't have to live in a world where we are, you know, in Ken's case, only there for her to notice 

Leanna McGrath  30:51  
When I think about, like the two extremes depicted in this movie, the Barbie land and Kendom. I don't actually think that either of the extremes are ideal. If I had to pick one, would I pick a world that was made for me where women are calling the shots? Sure..

Laura Laskey  31:12  
Can we go to Barbieland?

Leanna McGrath  31:13  
That's probably better. But I don't think that those two extremes are the only options. I feel like we kind of get stuck in these, like forced dichotomies in our society of you know, especially like, politically, right, you're either one party or the other. I think that there's so much to be learned from just like maybe creating something completely different. Like, it doesn't have to be one or the other. And so I don't actually want men to feel like women do now. Right? Like how Ken was portrayed at the beginning of the movie, like, I don't want that for men, I don't want that for anybody, when we say take down the patriarchy or bring down the patriarchy. To me, that doesn't mean like down with the men or like anti men in any way. It just means more like, let's create a world for all of us. Let's actually build workplaces and communities, right, with men and women, both in mind, and not just one or the other. There's just what if we built it together and created it together? And it wasn't like either or, to me, like that's the ideal. The egalitarian society, right, like that is the ideal to me. What do you think about that?

Laura Laskey  32:29  
I think what you said, like work together to make these policies is the biggest thing there. Because if you're truly considering everybody's input, and you truly are working together, you know, I was thinking about it actually, specifically from like a maternity leave stand. You know, in terms of workplaces being set up for men, fortunately, you know, a lot of the bigger companies are getting better about that leave and creating spaces for women, who are breastfeeding and whatnot. But I know, like when I had to take off for maternity leave, I didn't feel very good about it, even though my company was like, very gracious and giving. And I took 12 weeks of paid maternity leave, which like was a huge blessing. Because I honestly was like, How long should I ask for? Is that too long? Maybe I can get six weeks paid in six weeks, I'm paid like, what? What would be okay? What's not too much to ask for. And unfortunately, you know, I did that to myself. But that comes from a long history of what you just don't do that. You just don't take time off work and get paid for it. You just don't devote your time to other things that are also very important, like raising a child and giving birth and recovering so that you can come back and be effective and be very strong in your role again.

Leanna McGrath  34:01  
Yeah, you're supposed to work like you don't have children. And apparently you don't have a job.

Laura Laskey  34:06  
Right? 

Leanna McGrath  34:06  
Well, I think two things about that. I think one is that idea of feeling like we don't deserve it. Yes. If the systems were set up by men and women, then we might feel like, that's just something that happens, right? And a lot of other countries outside the United States. It's just inherent that that's what happens. Exactly. So no one is like, No, there's no drama about, oh, I'm gonna take a year off. It's just like, that's what happens in our society, in order to create, you know, the next generation, like we're all in that together, because we want to see the next generation thrive. And so you taking some time away from this job that will always be here. When you get back is fine. Like we're all invested in that. And so, there's the idea of like what we deserve quote, unquote, and then there's the idea of like, that is one of the great things that I think if we were to create the world together And then create our society together, then that's something that would be considered, of course, it wasn't considered whenever our workplaces were being set up because men didn't have babies and they had full time caregivers at home in their wives. free childcare. That's a really good point. 

Leanna McGrath  35:18  
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. And joining me to talk about this and seeing the movie with me. It was so fun to watch it with you and to talk through it. Also, I would love to hear any of your takeaways that maybe we didn't cover today or if you agree or disagree with any of the things that we did dive into today. So thank you so much, Laura, and thank you to everyone for listening. Have a great day. 

Leanna McGrath  35:45  
Thanks so much for tuning in to the executive coach for moms podcast. Please like, subscribe or follow the show so you'll be notified when the next episode is available. I hope you'll join me again next time. Take care

Transcribed by https://otter.ai