How to Create More Love, Intimacy, Desire, & Connection with the Mental Load of Motherhood + Leadership - with Eleni Economides (Valentine's Day Special)

Leanna Laskey McGrath  0:04  

Welcome to the Executive Coach For Moms podcast where we support women who are attempting to find balance and joy while simultaneously leading people at work and at home. I'm your host, Leanna Laskey McGrath, former tech exec turned full time mom, recovering perfectionist and workaholic, and certified executive coach. 

Eleni Economides  0:27  

Hi everyone. Welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for joining me today, and today I am joined by a wonderful guest, Eleni Economides. And Eleni and I are in a coaching mastermind together, and I heard her talking about the things she loves to talk about, which is love, sex and intimacy. And I just thought Eleni would be perfect to have on the show for February, around Valentine's Day, whenever we're all wanting more love, sex and intimacy in our lives. So let me tell you a little bit about alanium. Eleni is a sexual wellness and intimacy coach for women with low libido. She is also a certified sex therapist and a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, and for the past 10 years, she has helped countless couples, men and women experience more joy, connection, pleasure and satisfaction in their intimate relationships. Her education and experience in the field of couples and sex therapy has led Eleni to develop her own unique process that helps women with low libido transform into relaxed, confident and secure partners that can finally enjoy the deep connection and intimacy they deserve. Welcome, Eleni. 

Eleni Economides  1:42  

Hi, Leanna, thank you for having me. So good to be here. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  1:45  

Yeah, thanks so much for being here. I'm so excited. So tell us a little bit about you and what brought you to this work. 

Eleni Economides  1:53  

I don't know how far we should go, but I do have an accent. So I'm originally from Greece. I came to the US 20 years ago for my master's in marriage and family therapy, and right before I graduated, I met my husband, so I ended up staying in the country. Soon enough, I became a stay at home mom after working for a couple of years as a therapist. So coming out of those six years being a stay at home mom and going back into the professional world and trying to build my business, plus just being a married woman and having kids and just being absorbed into that lifestyle, I think some of your listeners are going through some of that, right? When you sort of transition to having kids and family life, it can be sometimes a struggle to keep a balance. I think that has become what informed my work. Going back to work, I decided to work with couples because I was kind of in a phase of life where I needed the help. I needed the help. I was kind of a little bit losing myself in motherhood and working with couples eventually led to having to study and learn more about sex, because unless we talked about it, things would only improve temporarily. So here I am, 10 years into it. I've worked with a lot of couples, men and women, intimacy and sexual concerns and low libido is one that's very common for us women for different reasons, which I'm hoping we might get into some of that today. But certainly I'm coming out of this partly, as you know, my personal self healing journey as a professional woman and a mom and all of that. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  3:38  

Yeah. And how old are your kids now? 

Eleni Economides  3:40  

My daughter is 11, and I have two sons, 13 and 15. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  3:43  

Oh, wow.

Eleni Economides  3:44  

I know, right. I can't believe it. I don't know how that happened. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  3:48  

Yeah, so tell me more about the the idea of low libido. What is that? How do you define that? What leads to it? Tell me more about that. 

Eleni Economides  3:58  

I wish there, there was one answer for it. But the way we define, most people define low libido is low sexual desire, quote, unquote, horniness, right? Not feeling, not feeling excited or horny or interested in sex. But part of what's happening is like this is more like the struggle that people have with low libido, or with libido period, is very much connected to lack of accurate and adequate sex education, right? And this influence of social media in Hollywood and this idealistic, romanticized view that we see on the screen of how it should be, and we get stuck not knowing that there's actually nothing wrong if you don't feel horny ahead of time, and that if you're willing to, you can actually step into it, rather than have it be there present from the beginning. And if it's not, assuming that your sex life is over and there's nothing that you can do, does that make sense? 

Eleni Economides  4:59  

Yeah. 

Eleni Economides  5:00  

So learning to step into desire is what I teach women to do, rather than wanting it to be there and wanting it to be easy and, quote, unquote natural and spontaneous, which is kind of how we remember it being in the beginning. So we're not really aware that transitioning to a different kind of desire, it's more the norm than the exception. For most women, a lot of men too, especially as we age. So I want to normalize it, and I want to, like, get unstuck from it, because it's not the most important thing if one wants to be sexually active and keep that part of their life vibrant. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  5:36  

Do you find in in your work, do you have a lot of new moms coming to you, right? Or, like women who have transitioned to motherhood, who felt differently before, and like you said, you know, at the beginning, it's exciting and spontaneous, and then, is it motherhood that changes that? Is it age that changes that? Is it just time with the same partner that changes that? Like, what do you think is the factor there? 

Eleni Economides  6:04  

So definitely, you know, having less time available to yourself with motherhood will impact sort of, you know, your mental availability for intimacy, because you sort of want to, you know, it kicks in with more of a relaxed state of mind, horniness and desire. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  6:27  

We don't really have that very much as working moms and leaders, yeah.

Eleni Economides  6:31  

And we don't really make that time for it either. Right back in the beginning of a relationship, we made the time. We were still busy, but we also made the time for that. As we are sort of getting busier and busier with motherhood, sometimes we don't make the time. I think we kind of forget that that time is for us, too. We sort of forget that that can be a very beneficial time for us. See it as one more thing that we have to do for someone else, and that's where we kind of lose the focus. Because when it becomes doing something for someone else, Come on, girl, how much, how much are you going to do for someone? Like, yeah, it gets too much. But bringing it back to you and how you that can be part of self care, it might be easier to make the time for it or be more willing, 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  7:20  

Yeah.Yeah, well, I think it's just like, in so many women that I work with, it's like I never feel like I have time for myself. I'm either working and at work, I have people who rely on me because I am their leader, or I'm trying to keep this company afloat and running. So I've got, you know, all the stresses of that, and everybody needing me all day, and then in the morning, before work, and then in the evenings, after work. I've got these kids that need me. And, you know, everybody is like, constantly needing something from me. And I think it's so common and easy to kind of de prioritize our relationships. Also, because we de prioritize ourselves, we forget that we get something out of the relationship, and it becomes so much more transactional, because it's like, what do I need? Right? Like, I need you to pick up the kids, I need you to fold this laundry, or I need you to make this lunch, or whatever, right? And it's just like much more kind of becomes more like those kind of needs that are, are focused on. And it's kind of like, yeah, when is there a time for a relationship, a marriage, you know, a kind of, I think it's very common to get de prioritized.

Eleni Economides  8:40  

Yeah, it does become deprioritized. The thing we kind of like, sometimes we take it for granted that, you know now that we are in this family relationship, somehow it should be working fine on its own, we forget that it's important to us. And we know, you and I both know when something is important to us, we get it done, we make it happen, right? Our work is important to us, and we do a good job. We make it happen. We have our checklist. We know how to like prioritize. With our kids, it's important to us, we sort of know what to do. We kind of forget that our relationship is important to us. We sort of take it for granted. We stop working on it or putting our energy as something that we are all. We're also nurturing, much like we nurture our job and our kids, our relationship is for us.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  9:34  

Yeah, but also it makes total sense that it feels like one more thing that we have to give energy to or nurture, and it's like, I don't have any more left. 

Eleni Economides  9:43  

But what if it was a place where you can get rather than give? 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  9:47  

Yeah. 

Eleni Economides  9:47  

Right? 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  9:48  

Yeah, tell me more about that. 

Eleni Economides  9:50  

It can totally be a place where you can get, where you can feel seen. Now I'm not talking about sex, okay, we're talking about being in a relationship, and. Communicating openly our needs, desires, frustrations, vulnerabilities, without being mad that we have them, right? What I mean by that is sometimes when we have, I mean, we just like to have it all together, and sometimes when we don't, we get either mad at ourselves or our partner that something is not going the way we want it to go, and instead of tapping into frustrated because this is not going the way I want it to go, meaning communicate the emotion, we act it out. We act out the frustration and the anger. We start getting snippy and short and cold, like what we're communicating is frustration, but we're acting it out rather than communicating it. Hey, this is frustrating. Maybe not all of it is going to get done, but I would like you to help me with this. Communicating an emotion and acting it out is different, and sometimes we get stuck in acting out our emotions, and of course, that triggers our partner, and then they start acting out their emotions. Sometimes that means just shutting down. And then we have two people that are like, not having fun together.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  11:14  

Yeah.

Eleni Economides  11:14  

And then it becomes even harder to be vulnerable with someone that you kind of like frustrated with. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  11:19  

Yeah. 

Eleni Economides  11:19  

So I think remembering that the relationship can be a place where you can have your emotions and needs be expressed and heard doesn't mean that you're always going to get the validation that you crave, but that can be okay too, I guess sometimes, right? 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  11:36  

Yeah, when you were talking, I was thinking about, I love taking things I learned from motherhood and applying them to my job or, you know, other areas of life. And I was just thinking like, we know what it's like to watch someone act out their emotions instead of communicate them, because we've had young children who don't have those skills yet, and we have to teach them those skills. And it's just interesting. It's almost like we're like, regressing to that. 

Eleni Economides  12:07  

What a fantastic observation. Yes, yes.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  12:10  

Yeah, so it's like, you've got two children, then when you need two adults in the household.

Eleni Economides  12:15  

And that's okay, right? We all get caught up in like, doing that.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  12:19  

Yeah.

Eleni Economides  12:19  

As long as we sort of like, remember that we can always go back and make amends and whether it's apologize, whether it's like, repair the connection.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  12:29  

Yeah, I think we can probably all relate to this. Everyone's who is in a long term relationship has probably experienced this at some point. So yeah, what are your recommendations? How do we move forward and and change it for ourselves? So that's not what we want our relationships to look like. I mean, when we were just talking about how, you know, we might become more snippy at, you know, towards our partner and kind of like that disconnect, and then, you know, they then respond to that, and we're just both kind of in that state where we're, like, acting out our emotions and reacting to each other rather than responding. And I think what happens a lot of times is that both people and maybe you can tell me if this is true or not, since you work with couples, but it's like both people were like, well, the other person is doing this and like, they need to fix it first. They're wrong, they're more wrong. They're wronger. So therefore they need to be the one to, like, take the first step to change this. So I guess I'm just wondering, like, is that something you see? 

Eleni Economides  13:37  

Oh, yeah. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  13:38  

And then what? Then what do from there?

Eleni Economides  13:41  

I call that self sabotage. Okay? This is what keeps couples in couples therapy for years, meaning we want someone else to be responsible for fixing something, and we just outsource all our power, because maybe they started it, or maybe they their behavior is worse than ours. We let ourselves off the hook for what we know belongs to us. We just, you know, justify it and indulge in feeling like shit, excuse my language, because the other person started it. So I mean, you and I both know that our feelings are the result of our thinking, not what of what another person says and does. What another person says and does will make us have a thought, or no, like a an interpretation, you wish, which a lot of the time that is an assumption. Or mind reading. We try to mind read what we think the other person just said and did like we attribute intent that might not be there. We make an assumption. We think we are correct. Oftentimes we are. We are informed because we know our partner well and how they think, but not all the times that we come to a conclusion about what our partner meant and why, why they say that we're correct, but our brain doesn't know that. The moment we have a thought it's like it triggers a feeling. So assuming responsibility for your feelings, everybody says it, but we don't really know what we mean. Like nobody can make you feel things. I don't know. A lot of people tell me this expression, but I don't know that, that they know what it means. It's true. People cannot make you feel anything. It's your own brain that makes you feel things, and then you snap. That's an action that comes out of a feeling. You get mad, and then you're being you're saying something, or you're doing something that is snippy.

Eleni Economides  15:27  

Yeah, because you have thoughts like they don't care as much as I do, or they are not as invested.

Eleni Economides  15:35  

Correct. They're selfish.

Eleni Economides  15:37  

Yeah, or if they love me, they would XYZ, do the, you know, do these things.

Eleni Economides  15:44  

Correct. So all those conclusions that come to us, we think we are 100% accurate, we don't even leave any room for, you know, error. But then our heart responds to that right responds to that thought, and then we feel hurt and mad and angry and defensive and all of the stuff that then create part of the pattern and their interaction, their reactivity, right? So if you're talking about, how do you change that? Just having the awareness that your thoughts create your feelings and any negative judgment that your mind comes up with, like, judging our partner coming to conclusions that, you know, we don't like that that sounds like he should or he shouldn't. That's when you're going to have a negative emotion. Does that make sense? 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  16:34  

Yeah, I, two kind of sayings that I've heard in my lifetime are coming up. One that I say all the time is, Don't believe everything you think, right? And kind of what you're saying is maybe question those thoughts a little bit more. Don't just believe them immediately as they come to you. And then the second is the idea that a relationship is defined by the collection of thoughts that you have about the other person. What are your thoughts about that? Is that how you define relationship? Or would you define it differently? It's a Brooke Castillo definition. 

Eleni Economides  17:10  

It is a Brooke Castillo right? Our relationships are our thoughts about another person. It wasn't really what I was thinking about relationships, but when I tried to see that as true, I discovered that it is. Right? The quality of a relationship I have with someone is immediately connected to the quality of the thoughts that I have about them, whether it's my husband, my kids or my client. If my thoughts about another person are judgmental and negative, it's inevitable that that it will impact the way I feel and interact with them. And if I don't double check that or be aware that at least, I have this judgment and then hold off on just believing it those extra few seconds of like, holding back your your judgment, if there is a judgment, has the potential to really improve a relationship dramatically. So I agree the collection of your thoughts, like the quality of the thinking determines the quality of a relationship, and your partner has thoughts about you.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  18:17  

And we think we know what they are.

Eleni Economides  18:19  

And we think we know what they should be, and when they don't have the thoughts that we want them to have about us, we get offended. We get, you know, said or hurt. I mean, I think it's better to know what thoughts they have about us so we can, like, evaluate them and try to see how to handle them, rather than get upset when we hear them if we don't like them, and withdraw and shut down, like realizing that we can't control other people's thinking, and they will have thoughts because their brain is offering judgments all the time. Let's get that out of the way. We all judge all the time, sometimes positively, sometimes negatively, but that's what our brains do. So it's not like, a surprise that your partner is going to have judgmental thoughts about you, because you know you have them for them, right? But how we handle the judgmental thoughts is more important.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  19:15  

And you said the idea of holding back a few seconds tell me more about that. Like it sounds like, that's maybe a tool that people can use. So what do you recommend? We hold back a few seconds and, and do what in that time? 

Eleni Economides  19:29  

And we get curious. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  19:30  

Okay. 

Eleni Economides  19:31  

Okay, so we hold back a few seconds, meaning we don't respond to the like, lot of times it sounds in my in our minds. Are we like, Are you kidding me. We hear that thought in our mind and then we either say it or we go down the rabbit hole of I can't believe this. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm the only one who is doing everything, right? We all have triggers like that. Thoughts that sound like, Are you kidding me? Are you joking? Are you for real? when we get upset at something. So the moment you you know you know what those are for you, when you hear that this is like that can be your sign. I'm getting triggered. What could be happening? What else could be happening here? And then that's the time to maybe ask a question to your partner, but let me understand or tell me more. Can you explain this better? 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  20:21  

Yeah, those are better questions. I was thinking maybe, like, why don't you ever do anything? Is not probably the question that you're suggesting.

Eleni Economides  20:28  

Why don't you ever do anything is a conclusion you come in your mind, that this person never does anything, which I don't think they agree with.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  20:36  

Sure, sure. 

Eleni Economides  20:37  

So you're not going to get an answer that's going to be an answer, it's going to be a defensive answer.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  20:41  

Sure. So the actual questions that would be purely curious, pure curiosity would be..

Eleni Economides  20:49  

I don't know if that specifically like in this case, it might not be a question. Might just be a statement that sounds like, feel like you're not doing enough, and I feel overwhelmed. Your partner might still get defensive, like it feels like you're not doing enough, or it feels like I'm doing everything, and I feel overwhelmed, and we need to talk about this. Do you think you're doing enough? Maybe you know your partner is going to say, Okay, I'm thinking, I think I'm doing enough because I'm doing this and this and this and this and this and this, which could be things that your brain has forgotten, and it would be good for them to tell you this, why don't you ever do anything? Versus, do you think you're doing enough? It's an example of a different question, if you must ask a question.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  21:31  

Yeah.

Eleni Economides  21:31  

Like in a curious way, really wanting to trigger their this is a curious question. Do you think you're doing enough? 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  21:39  

It feels like, in this day and age, there is so much to be done, especially when you know we're just, we're living on these, like islands with just our nuclear families, and when both people are pouring so much into work all day, and then you know, it's like, Oh, and there's like, so much to do at home, to maintain a household and support and raise children. It'd be interesting to hear from you working with couples like it seems like probably both people feel like they're constantly doing so much, but like there's just still always more to be done. There's just so much to be done, that sometimes it feels like everything I do it's just not enough, and then we look to the only other person that we can in the situation to help us, and it's like they're drowning, too. They're working really hard and trying too, right? Is that something that you see? Is that a common thing? 

Eleni Economides  22:40  

Yeah, I do believe that this is happening where both people they feel like they're not doing enough, or there's so much to do that they can do it all by themselves, but they also see that the other person thinks they're not doing enough, meaning, you look at your partner, you might think they're not doing enough, even though they're overwhelmed as well, right? And then they might have thoughts like that about you in different ways, like they're not that you're not doing enough, perhaps to like love them, like you're not doing enough to like connect with them. The enough is not always about the kids, so it creates disconnect the moment we start having that judgment not doing enough. And instead of turning toward each other and telling each other, I'm starting to feel disconnected. I feel like you're not doing enough, or I feel like whatever I do is not enough. We pull away and we deny ourselves that moment of connection, because there is risk. We might not get the response we want. Our brain knows that that our partner might not give us the perfect response. So sometimes we don't take the risk to be vulnerable. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  23:43  

Well, I guess I'm curious about like, then what would you recommend? What should we do in a situation where we feel like, oh my gosh, I'm doing so much, and I feel like I see my partner doing a lot too, but maybe they could be doing more, or somehow we're both doing so much and we're still not getting everything done, and also we need connection, and there's just so much, right? And so, yeah, any recommendations? 

Eleni Economides  24:12  

Okay. I think it starts with us checking ourselves in what you're describing. There is a an element of perfectionism inherent in it. If you want everything to be done, you're going to struggle. If you recognize that not everything can be done, if that is your mantra, that I'm going to prioritize the most important things to be done, all of a sudden you have more time, because not everything needs to be done. So the pressure we feel to get everything done sometimes comes from this little bit of black and white thinking, all or nothing, perfectionism. It's a way to manage anxiety. I go, go, go, go, go, go, go, and checking and checking things off a list to feel better, but the list is endless, so it feels like you cannot feel better because you have to keep checking things off the list. But removing things of the list, or telling yourself that there is a list, and in a perfect world, everything would be checked. But that's not the case, and that's not what I'm striving for. To have everything checked. Then all of a sudden you might have pockets of time if you let go of some of the things that you thought should be done and had to be done, that maybe you cut yourself some slack and your partner as well, and then there is more time for connection and something else other than Go, go, go, go. Now if you want to turn to your partner and to have that conversation, it can be a conversation. It can be, you know how like this is what's important to me, because, like I said, you have a list, but the list may be different than your partners. What you prioritize may be different than what they're prioritizing. And you being willing to reprioritize and put the more important things on the top and let go some of the lower things on the priority list, and sharing what yours are with your partner and listening to theirs, it might really help get it done together. But if we want everything to be checked off the list, then the amount of pressure that we're putting on ourselves and our partner, it's inevitable that it's going to it's sort of like, I don't know, like, a pressure cooker, he can't, like, there's no things are cooking all the time, and the steam that comes out of the valve is not cutting it. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  26:30  

I just think that's really interesting, because for high achieving, perfectionist women, especially, that can be very difficult. I remember when I had transitioned to motherhood, and I was balancing a corporate executive job and, you know, having a baby, and I hired a therapist and I hired a coach to try and, you know, figure out, like, how do I do this? Because I just kept thinking, like, this is so hard. How is anybody doing this? And I remember my coach said, things just might be a little bit more messy than what you're used to. And I remember, like, wanting to throw up. Like I was, like, I am not like that. I hear you saying that, but like, I have absolutely no interest in that idea. So I think you know it can be hard for us to embrace, you know what you're saying of letting some of the things go, because in our minds, they do have to all be done for whatever reasons. Right? It's how we determine our worthiness as a human, or, like, how we determine that we are a good mother and a good wife and a good employee and a good leader, right? And it's like, if those things don't get done, then we are going to make it mean something really bad about ourselves. Or if everything is so messy and we constantly feel like we are grasping and like catching up and we're not on top of everything, then it feels like we're failing, and it feels terrible to us, because we like to be on top of everything, and we like to be out in front of everything, and that is very much how we define our worth and value that we bring to the world. So I'm curious from your perspective, because this is something I coach a lot of executive women on, but I'm curious from your perspective, because it sounds like you see this coming up in relationships. What suggestions do you have, or what kinds of things can we do to let some things go or, you know, kind of reconcile with, oh, everything on the list can't get done or won't get done, and like being okay with that?

Eleni Economides  28:53  

It's actually retraining your brain to not attach your value to your checklist. Most of us turn to our partner to help us check off the things and more more and more and more things, and we still there's so much to do, right? So the anxiety about avoiding this feeling of failure that we would experience if things were not checked off the list, because then we would feel, you know, worthless or devalued or not good enough, sort of like a constant chase. What you actually want to do is to retrain your brain through your health, which is what what you want to help clients to and me as well, right, detach their value and worthiness from the number of check marks. Because it's inherent. You were born with it. You'd never had to earn it before, right? You come into the world with it, much like our children are fully worthy and valuable when they don't have to check anything off their to do list. Why do we tell ourselves we that's not the case for us. Our value and work is unconditional. It doesn't depend on check marks. And untraining our brain from that narrative, is our responsibility, not our partner's.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  30:10  

Yeah.

Eleni Economides  30:11  

Not his responsibility. I say his, of course, this is, you know, for the sake of this kind of time. It can be they, can be she, doesn't matter, but we want them to be responsible to decrease our anxiety from all this mental chatter we have. And it's not theirs. they can't do that.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  30:28  

Yeah, but maybe we expected them to or hope that they can. 

Eleni Economides  30:31  

We want them to. We want them to. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  30:33  

Yeah. Well, it's interesting, because I think there's that idea of anything we do or don't do is to either feel or avoid a feeling. And what I hear you saying is like we are keeping this attachment to making sure everything gets done, and, you know, feeling really anxious and overwhelmed about it, and in order to avoid feeling like we're not good enough, we're a failure, and the feelings that would be associated with that. But what's so interesting is that we do that often at the expense of, you know, our own enjoyment of life, our own sanity, our relationships, our partner's happiness, our happiness. We do it at, there's a cost to it, to avoiding feeling like a failure, and it's like we don't maybe recognize that cost associated with it. 

Eleni Economides  31:28  

Yes, you said it perfectly. The cost of avoiding feeling like a failure is anxiety, grumpiness, sometimes depression. It's mostly anxiety, right? Anxiety is a filler feeling. Whenever we try to avoid a deeper feeling, we have anxiety. So avoid feeling like we failed, which, by the way, we are the only person that will say that, like we are ourselves' worst enemy. Nobody else will say we failed if we don't, I don't know, check this and this and this of the list today. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  32:03  

Sure. 

Eleni Economides  32:03  

Our brain is the only person will do that. So that's why, earlier I said self sabotage. Those are self sabotaging thoughts that keep us in like, anxious state. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  32:14  

Yeah.

Eleni Economides  32:15  

Now that's the cost. The cost is anxiety and lack of joy, yeah, and lack of connection.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  32:20  

Yeah, well, and I think what's so interesting is that in our pursuit to continuously uphold these lists and ensure that we don't feel like a failure, we're doing it at the expense of other things like our health and our marriage relationship. And then when those things fail, or, you know, don't work out, then we inevitably-

Eleni Economides  32:45  

Feel like a failure.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  32:46  

Exactly. But I think to your point, at the beginning, in terms of our relationship, and I would say our health, a lot of times, we take them for granted, that they're just always going to be there, and we don't need to invest in them. But I think what ends up staying we can feel good about is the things we invest in, which generally are our career and and our kids, and so we can feel good about those things, which is great, but then, you know, there are other parts of our lives that are important to us that we kind of forget about, that might not be going as well as we want them to or might lead to a quote, unquote failure at some point. And then we blame ourselves and feel and feel terrible and end up feeling the feelings that we didn't want to feel in the first place, and that we worked so hard to avoid.

Eleni Economides  33:32  

Correct. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  33:32  

So there's one other thing I want to ask you about that you said earlier that I think is really, really interesting, and it is about the idea that we tend to give our power away to the other person. And you know, whenever we're saying, like, they need to go first, they need to step up, they need to right this wrong. You know, whatever it is like, it's like we're putting it in their hands and expecting them to do something for an outcome that we desire. And I think it's so interesting, because everyone listening to this is a very powerful woman in her own right. You know, whether that be at work, whether that be as a mother, and then, you know, in this arena, like you said, it's like we're giving that power away. And, you know, and so I'm curious, what do you think creates that, or what leads to that, and then, how can we get our power back? Like, how do we go about doing that?

Eleni Economides  34:34  

Getting our power back. So I'm gonna use sex as an example to explain to you what I mean, right? How, sometimes we give our power away and outsource it. So when women struggle with low libido, oftentimes they, and I'm not denying that they believe that the reason for low libido is lack of connection, and if their partner was doing more of this or less of that, they feel like they would experience more connection.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  35:01  

And desire.

Eleni Economides  35:02  

And desire, right? Connection and desire, that there is a connection there between emotional connection and sexual desire. It's not the whole story, though, right? So sometimes the whole example of the love languages, okay? What people do when they talk about their love languages is they're outsourcing their power, meaning I tell you what my love language is, you tell me what your love language is, and then I have to do what I know makes you feel loved, even if it doesn't match the way I want to love you. And you have to do what I told you makes me feel loved, so that I feel loved, and if you don't do that, then I don't I don't feel loved.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  35:45  

And it's your fault.

Eleni Economides  35:46  

Can we agree we love each other, and we're going to try to incorporate some of those things into our interactions, but if I don't speak your love language today, it doesn't mean that I don't love you and you should feel disconnected. Like we're outsourcing our power when we are making another person responsible to make us feel things. Remember, the only one responsible for our feelings is our thinking. Nobody can make us feel desire, connection. Yes, other people's words and actions are important, but they are not solely responsible for how we feel. Our interpretations and the meaning things we tell ourselves is what creates our feelings. So stop outsourcing that. Take responsibility for I feel this way because that's what I thought.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  36:41  

Yeah, but Eleni, if he would just put the toilet seat down and put the cap back on the toothpaste, then... right? Isn't that what we do? It's like we we set these conditions.

Eleni Economides  36:54  

We do. But if the toilet seat is up and you didn't have the thought, he doesn't care about me, because if he did, he would keep the seat down because I told him to, then the seat up would not be a problem. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  37:07  

That's right.

Eleni Economides  37:08  

You would be putting it out and sitting on it and peeing and getting up and 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  37:11  

Going on about your day. 

Eleni Economides  37:12  

Yeah, go on about your day. The thing that is setting is he's doing this because he doesn't care, or something like that. If he cared, he should remember what I asked. That's the only thought, the only thing that make us feel bad.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  37:28  

Outside of kind of like abuse or.

Eleni Economides  37:30  

Of course, of course, we're not talking about situations like that. No, no.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  37:34  

Sure. I just want to throw out that caveat, because I think that, it's so important to recognize how impactful our thoughts about another person are, and also, I think that it can go to a place where we can use it against ourselves and gaslight ourselves into staying in a relationship because we were like, well, I just need to feel more loving towards them, or-

Eleni Economides  37:58  

No, no, no, yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up. No, we're not talking about that's now what we want to do right, sort of like gaslight ourselves and change reality, if that's the reality, that there is an element of abuse there or manipulation or control, whatever.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  38:12  

Yeah. So let's say we do want more connection. We do want to be with this person who is treating us well, and we want to deepen our connection in our relationships. What would you suggest? What is a good first step for someone to take, to kind of lean into their marriage or their relationship? You know, whenever you said before that, a lot of times we take it for granted. We don't invest, we don't put our energy or focus there. Anything that you would recommend that you know that you've seen where couples are successful, or individuals are successful in taking the kind of reins of their relationship and and making it and improving it, and making like a conscious choice to improve it?

Eleni Economides  39:02  

Something very important is to start paying attention to the positive things, the things that our partner does well, because those we also take for granted, or oftentimes what I was used to hear in my mind was like, What, should I give him a cookie for doing his job? But there's nothing wrong with giving someone a cookie. In your mind, right, in your mind. By that, I mean like noticing the things that we appreciate and like about our partner. Don't assume that's it's for granted and it's going to be and it should be like this, and it's not a big deal that our partner does this and this and this good thing for his family, me, anything right? This person, you were attracted to this person for a reason, and those things are still there, but your focus has shifted to other things right now that feel more important. But that person is still there. The values that attracted you to them are still there, the things that you admired and usually were complimentary usually, you know, we end up with people that are complimentary to us. One is an introvert, the other one is an extrovert. One is a type A, the other one is more artistic and creative and relaxed. The reason why we pick partners like that is because we learn from them, and they balance us out, but we forget all that benefit, and we go into like, ah, we have nothing in common. We are so different. I wish he or she was more like me, so that things were easier. But come back and remember all of that like, remember what you like about your partner, what attracted you to them, and sort of like, re embrace those differences, because in the beginning, you knew they were different, but you didn't judge it. You didn't judge them for those differences. You were, like, more open minded about how they're different from you. You were more willing to have compassion for their difference. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  41:02  

Yeah, your different thoughts.

Eleni Economides  41:03  

Yes, different preferences. Sometimes one likes to be a homebody and the other one wants to go out for dinner often. So accept and embrace the difference and remember the good stuff. Sometimes say thank you. Like gratitude can really go a long way with just sharing some, thank you for this. Thank you for doing it. Or tell me what you need from me. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  41:24  

Yeah. And then your favorite topic, sex. We talked a little bit about what low libido means. So if a woman is experiencing low libido, not feeling, you know, super like a huge level of desire for their partner, what do we do? 

Eleni Economides  41:42  

Well, it depends on what she wants. Does she want to have that desire or not? Like remembering what we just talked about, remembering how good it felt can really, and choosing to recreate that instead of just being upset that it's not like it used to be, is how what I help women do, right? They know once things were better, and if they sort of put their mind into recreating that, they can make it happen. They just have to recognize that that's important to them. If it is right for some women, it's not, and I'm not talking to those women, but if how you feel about your partner is important to you, and how you feel about the intimacy in your relationship is important to you, then improving it is a goal that's achievable. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  42:30  

So you said in terms of like building more connection a good, some good steps are to be thinking about what you appreciate about the other person, verbalizing what you appreciate about the other person. What about if we want to have great sex? 

Eleni Economides  42:47  

So we are talking about the relational component of libido, right? But there is two other components, your relationship to yourself and how you view yourself, your self confidence, let's say it that way, is a very important component of your sexual desire. And your relationship to sex is the third component, right? How you have been raised, what you've been taught to believe about sex. And most women being raised in a patriarchal society are taught that, you know, sex is it's very, very mixed messages. On the one hand, sex is kind of shallow and cheap and unimportant, or a little dirty or a little dangerous, not good stuff, right? And you should abstain or save it for marriage, or just make sure you choose to have it with someone that loves you. It has to be about love, right? We have a mental split about sex. And then on the other side, it's the kind of like, Oh, you have to know how to sexually please a partner. You have to be like sexy and a goddess and very, very like erotic. How do you-

Leanna Laskey McGrath  43:53  

Reconcile? 

Eleni Economides  43:55  

Right? So a lot of women are just very split and confused, and that relationship with sex is unclear. So in the beginning of a relationship, they're managing because there is the new relationship energy. But as the relationship progresses, all those mixed emotions come back up and impact our desire if we don't address them and if we don't look into them. So yes, the connection and being remembering what your partner do you like about them, and trying to make connection by reducing reactivity is important. But also looking at your relationship with sex, because if you have anxiety about sex, and perhaps you're experiencing difficulty with an orgasm or lack of sexual pleasure, your brain is going to say, that's a chore. We're not going to do that. So owning that part and clearing that out within yourself is part of what, what I do with women.

Eleni Economides  44:51  

And the other one is self confidence. And by self confidence, I mean body image and how all of that changes with having babies and whatnot. Things change, and embracing ourselves and making peace with some of it and creating goals that make us feel better, that area is a big one, as well as what we were talking before, right, like your sense of self and worthiness and how to increase that independently of achievement. I think people are afraid that if I do that, then I'm not going to be as successful. If I don't, like, base my value and worthiness on my achievement, then I'm going to be less successful. And then I'm going to, like, be kind of like, blah, but that's a thought there, right? So how do we separate the two and nurture ourselves as a being and as a human, and create better self care and have goals that are going to make us feel successful. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  45:49  

Yeah.

Eleni Economides  45:49  

So your sex life and your libido is connected to those three things. Sometimes, one, quote, unquote, suffers more than the others, but we touch on all three. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  45:59  

Yeah, it's interesting, as you were talking about kind of relationship with sex, and how we have been taught and socialized like you were talking about earlier, if we're trying to look at sex as a time that is for us, but if we've been socialized to believe that we are to please the other person, and you know, I think especially for women, it's like, we need to make sure that it ends well for him, and we, you know, if we fake it, that's okay. And so, you know, I think whenever, like, those kinds of things exist, then it's kind of like, why would I spend my time nurturing someone else, like we talked about earlier, especially if I'm not going to get something out of it. And I think that comes back to, you know, our relationship with sex and how we're socialized to think about it, and what we're supposed to do with it. 

Eleni Economides  46:50  

Yeah, so repairing that is huge. It's huge for our emotional, mental well being, relational well being for us, right, for our own relationship to ourselves, repairing our relationship to sex. And instead of having it be something, we give it to someone when they have earned it. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  47:07  

Yeah.

Eleni Economides  47:08  

We do it for ourselves and identifying the reasons. Because this is what I like about it. This is how it makes me feel, and I want it, but what are all the benefits for me? 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  47:19  

Yeah. I know that you work with both couples and individuals. Is this kind of work, generally, something that you would work with a woman one on one, or is this something that you would like work with couples together to figure that out together for them?

Eleni Economides  47:33  

Specifically when we're talking about low libido and sexual desire, lack of connection, all of that I would, I would usually work with a woman individually, right? If there is, you know, sometimes you know your partner is sort of like doing everything they can, but you still don't feel it right. Sometimes the relationship is very kind of combative, or there's a lot of conflict and fighting, that might be more appropriate for, like, couples therapy. I often do couples and individual in a parallel way. Now we're talking about therapy, right, but when I help women increase their libido, I work with them individually and help them clear out their relationship with sex, increase their confidence and develop their relational skills and get better at communicating their needs, their emotions, listening. Decrease their reactivity, which has inevitably positive benefit for their relationship, but their partner learns from them. They're modeling better relationship skills to their partner. And when one person changes their relationship changes, you can't have the same relationship when you're doing things differently. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  48:40  

I guess, my question, or like a thought that might come up, is like, well is it all on the woman to change, right? Is it all on here we are holding up our household and holding up our workplace and holding up our communities and our society, and it's like we have to do this, too. How do you see that? Is it all on the woman to change, or, you know, or to do this work. 

Eleni Economides  49:03  

Absolutely not. It's not all of you, right, but if I knew I could do that, I could have such impact. Why would I choose to not feel empowered by that? Right? That's an example of outsourcing. Why should I be the only one responsible for making this better? Why not be fucking excited about that, knowing that you can trust yourself to get it done and do it well and give yourself this gift, having a better life? It's not all on you to change it. You don't have to do anything. But if you could, why wouldn't you? If you had the thought that I shouldn't be the one responsible, it's an example of outsourcing your power. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  49:45  

Yeah, yeah. So what you're saying is this is a way to take back your power. 

Eleni Economides  49:50  

But if there is anything that I can do and be, if I can be impactful, might as well be impactful and have a better sex life and a better relationship. I know how powerful I am. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  50:02  

Yeah. And I think what's also important to think about is sometimes we think of changing our circumstance. So maybe if I had a different partner, then I wouldn't have to do this right, like they would just know what I want and what I need, and, you know, make sure that that my needs are met. Maybe it's just that, right? What would you say to that? 

Eleni Economides  50:21  

Sometimes that is true, but you don't start there, right? That's more like the conclusion of having done the work and then coming to the conclusion that I've done everything and the best I can and still not working. So maybe I need a different partner. But it's not where you start. That's another example of outsourcing responsibility, like it must be the partner, not me, and it's up to them. They have all the power to fix this, and if they don't, I can continue to suffer, and I'm entitled to my suffering and being pissed as hell. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  50:57  

I love it. Well, Eleni, where can people find you if they want to work with you on you know, increasing love and sex and desire and intimacy in their relationships?

Eleni Economides  51:11  

Well, I have a website, newintimacy.com, and I offer free consultations for women that are interested in doing the work, the work, learning how what it looks like to work with me, hearing more about and sort of getting into a little bit understanding what is contributing to their situation. It's a great hour to spend with me and kind of dig into what's going on and why it's happening, and what you can do. And on social media, I'm thelibidocoach, so Instagram and Facebook, I would love people to join me and get more, you know, follower that can get tips and advice, and I often post on posting sex.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  51:53  

Wonderful. Well, we will definitely link in the show notes. And if you are looking for more connection in your relationship, and maybe you're feeling it right now, around Valentine's Day and this love season, then definitely reach out to Eleni and she can help. So thank you so much, Eleni, for sharing all of your wisdom with us. And I've loved this conversation, and I'm so excited for everyone else to hear it. So thank you so much for spending time with me today. 

Eleni Economides  52:23  

Thank you for having me, Leanna.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  52:25  

Yes. Well, thank you everyone for tuning in, and we will see you all next week. Have a good one. 

Eleni Economides  52:34  

If you're loving what you're learning on this podcast, I'd love to invite you to check out The Executive Mom Reset. It's my six month coaching program for ambitious, success driven, career focused women who are ready to stop surviving and start thriving. Together, we'll tackle the stress, guilt and overwhelm that come with being a high achieving executive mom. You'll learn how to set boundaries, prioritize what truly matters, and build the confidence to show up powerfully at work, at home, and for yourself. Head on over to coachleanna.com right now to schedule a free discovery call. We'll spend an hour talking about where you are now, what you want to create, and how I can help you get there, because every woman deserves to live the life of her dreams. Let's create yours together.