Raising Resilient Leaders: Modeling How to Overcome Rejection to Create a Successful Life - with Dr. Corey Seemiller

Leanna Laskey McGrath  0:08  

Welcome to the executive coach for moms podcast where we support women who are attempting to find balance and joy while simultaneously leading people at work and at home. I'm your host Leanna Laskey McGrath, former tech exec turned full time mom, recovering perfectionist and workaholic, and certified executive coach.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  0:30  

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for joining me today. I am so excited for you to meet this guest. She is an old friend of mine and former co worker. I feel so excited to reconnect with her and to bring her to the podcast. She's also a fellow podcast host. And so first of all, I will read her bio, but let me introduce her first. So Hi, Dr. Corey Seemiller. 

Corey Seemiller  0:55  

Well, hello. So good to see you and talk to you and reconnect with you and be in this space with you. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  1:02  

You too. Should I call you Dr. Seemiller or Corey? 

Corey Seemiller  1:06  

I think that we have crossed over the boundaries where you are welcome to call me Corey. I don't think you've ever called me anything but Corey, so. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  1:13  

Let me read this bio. It might take me the whole episode. But let me tell you all about Corey because she's done so many amazing things. My version of her bio is that she is a total badass, who knows a lot about a lot of things, especially leadership and Gen Z, and a million other things too. Anytime I talk to Corey, I learn something. So Dr. Corey Seemiller is a professor in the Department of Leadership Studies and Education and Organizations at Wright State University, teaching undergraduate courses in organizational leadership as well as graduate courses in leadership development in student affairs and higher education. She is the author of the Student Leadership Competencies Guidebook, and associated tools and assessments to help educators develop intentional curriculum that enhances Leadership Competency Development. She has served as an issue editor for New Directions for Student Leadership, the co chair for National Leadership Symposium, the Leadership Education Academy, and an associate editor of the Journal of Leadership Studies. Dr. Seemiller also has a deep understanding of today's young adults. She is the co author of several articles as well as four books on Generation Z, who are people born between 1995 and 2010, including Generation Z: A Century in the Making, Generation Z Goes to College, Generation Z Leads, and Generation Z Learns. She also co authored the Gen Z voices on voting research report and the campus of tomorrow report. Dr. Seemiller recently led the Gen Z global study where she worked with 91 research collaborators to better understand Generation Z in a post COVID world, participants from 81 countries took part in the study. And her book Generation Z Around the World was published by Emerald Publishing. Her highly popular TED talk on Generation Z at TEDx Dayton, showcased how Generation Z is making a difference in the world. Her work has been featured on NPR and in the New York Times, as well as in several other news publications and academic journals. She has also been interviewed for podcasts as well as TV and radio shows worldwide. Wow, welcome.

Corey Seemiller  3:25  

Oh my goodness, it's always so weird to listen to that.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  3:28  

Well, but it's amazing. Because also you're such a wonderful person, and so down to earth. And when I was reading your bio, and obviously I know you've done all these amazing things, but to see it all in one place. And in total, you've published how many books.

Corey Seemiller  3:43  

I've published eleven. I've got two more in the queue right now. Yeah. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  3:47  

And you're a tenured professor and doing all these speaking engagements. I guess I'm just curious, like, how do you feel about all of this?

Corey Seemiller  3:57  

I love being on the go, I run a master's degree program. And I always tell the prospective students when when they come on to my zoom session, I always say two years is going to pass and either you can be standing at graduation or not. And that's how I live my life. Time is gonna pass whether you do with it what you want. And what I want to do with my time is to make great contributions to make the world a better place. And I do that through my writing, and my teaching and my speaking and those kind of things. And that's just how I like to show up. So there's no rest for the weary in my household. I'm always on the go and doing something and that's just time is gonna pass whether I do something with it or not. So that's how I live my life. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  4:32  

Yeah, and you're a mom.

Corey Seemiller  4:34  

And I'm a mom of a 15 year old daughter. Yes. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  4:37  

So how do you find time to kind of do all of this and enjoy it? Or I'm assuming you're enjoying it? 

Corey Seemiller  4:44  

I do enjoy it. Well, there's a couple things. One thing is that I've found ways to be incredibly productive and that's been helpful so I can do things early early in the morning. I make very good use of my time. So that's one thing that's been helpful to me, people to try to fit a lot in into a little time period. But the other thing I think, from a parenting perspective that's been really helpful to me is that I really incorporated my daughter into my career into my world. And as a matter of fact, you know, I'm going to be going just next week and doing a speaking engagement. And she's coming with me. So whenever it permits with school schedules, and then she comes with me, she takes pictures. She's even even as young as I think she was six, she was at an event passing out evaluations for me, she just likes to be included in everything. I do remember this one, where I was, I had to do two back to back sessions. And we had a lunch break in between, but it was going to be the same exact session. And I spoke the first one. And she sat there very quietly, she was about seven, sat there very quietly, never came back after lunch. And I was getting prepared to do the second one. And she said, can I go to your microphone test? And I said, Yes, you can. So she gets up there, and literally verbatim starts giving my entire talk. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  5:49  

Oh, my gosh. 

Corey Seemiller  5:50  

And I said, Well, you know, she's like, of course, I listen, I know, all of this stuff. And when I was preparing for my TED talk, she would listen to me even at you know, like, age, I think she was seven or eight at the time. And she would listen and she'd say, Mommy, you missed a word, you missed a word. So she's always been not just a part of what I do. But like, she's been helpful, right? Like her. She's been contributory. And she sees her role in my career as being not just like, I'm have a career, and I have a kid, like, she helps me with my career, even the littlest thing she can do. And so it's been nice to be able to have that collaboration with my own daughter, as long as she can remember, it's always been like that. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  6:24  

Yeah, I love that so much. It's like she's like a partner in your career. I think sometimes, the way that society kind of looks at like work and children, it's almost like they are mutually exclusive, or like, the children are like an inhibitor of the career. And you're saying like, she's actually supporting your career in a positive way? 

Corey Seemiller  6:45  

Yeah, you know, it's interesting, too, because she knows all the details about it every single night, when we have dinner, we talk about what are our highlights of the day, but we also talked about our low lights. And you know, I might be really open and say, you know, I had a difficult day with this or something happened. So she feels like I trust her with some of that information. And I remember, I have a book and I'm trying to get it just go. It's a totally different book than I've ever been before. It's a memoir. And I'm trying to get it published. And I've been pitching it out to agents and rejection, rejection, rejection, I mean, that's the story of my life is just rejection. And you just, I went in to tuck her into bed. And she saw that I looked a little distraught. And she said, what's wrong? And I said, I got rejection, I said, I just really wish that there were like, 100 agents just tripping over themselves just to pick up my book. And she looked at me, and she said, Mommy, you only need one.

Corey Seemiller  7:35  

And I was like, You know what? You're so right. Like, sometimes it just takes that, like, if I trust her enough to tell her like, what is going on and not protect her and shield her from those things. You know, I mean, to some extent, that she can be an active partner. And she said that to me, and I was like, I don't need 100 people. I need one. She's absolutely right. And she goes, the right person will come along. And I was just like, how are you so wise, like, sometimes it just takes a second to just kind of ground yourself and say, Oh, hold on a second. She is a partner in this. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  8:05  

Yeah. I love that so much. As you know, I have a five year old daughter and she similarly at age appropriately, right. She's like, I'll say, I'm feeling really frustrated right now. And she'll say, Well, you know what Daniel Tiger says, Mama, you need to take a deep breath and count to four and when we trust our kids with real things. And yeah, obviously age appropriately. But I think sometimes maybe we assume that they can't handle, you know, a hard thing that's happening for us. But just like you're facing a rejection with publishing a book, I'm sure our kids are facing rejections at school and in relationships and things like that. And so just to know that, that is a human experience, and to see their parents experience that and be real about it. I think that's so cool. I love that. 

Corey Seemiller  8:52  

Well, yeah, I mean, you know, I can give her as many talks as I want about maybe getting not getting picked for the team or whatever it might be at school, and about how rejection hurts and all this stuff. But her actually watching me go through rejection, feel it, own it, then move forward, and life goes on, then she can see that rejection is part of how things work. And so whether it's that or something else, she's witnesses it. My parents did a great job. I mean, they were great people and they raised me well, but I do remember they really did try to protect me from everything it was either they didn't think I would know enough to be even worth the conversation of like, what happened at work today. Or they were just protecting me from grown up stuff. And you know, of course, I don't tell her things that are you know, like you're saying, Ah, you know, I'm very age appropriate, but at the same time, it's like the relationship I have with her feels really different. It feels more kind of real like sometimes mommy isn't happy sometimes mommy had a bad day. It's okay, you know, and and she knows that and that's why like when we're at dinner, you know, we always do highlights and low lights and that the low lights are what's really key is what do you wish went maybe didn't go as you hoped or planned or was a disappointment or, you know, just something out of the ordinary that just set you back today. And so we always talk about that, because then we can say, okay, so like, what are we going to do moving forward? And we talk about that, too. So we acknowledge that, but that's really important just for her to see that as like role modeling, I think. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  10:10  

Yeah, I can't agree with that more I love that makes it a more integrated experience overall, right? Like, we have one life, we don't have this like work self and home self. It's all together. And I think that, whenever, like you said, they see us going through it, then number one, they know that whenever they experience it, that it's a normal, it's not like they're the only ones because I think a lot of times, that's a very human way of thinking is we think like, I'm the only one who's ever experienced this, everyone else is doing this better than me. So they see that. And number two, I think like when we show up, and we're maybe not our best selves, or we're feeling upset or frustrated or disappointed about something that happened in our work day or our personal lives outside of our children, and then they see it without conversation, I think a lot of times, they just assume it's their fault, right? Like they must have caused this in some way. And I think that's calling out and sharing, like, what's actually going on, and that it's not them that we're upset with, it's something else, I think is so important. 

Corey Seemiller  11:19  

Yeah, I totally agree with you. And I think it's also kind of piggybacking on that, the idea that in my case, if I'm transparent enough about my feelings, or my day, I can also, in some ways kind of frame why things might be happening the way they are, listen, I've had a really hard day, I got some really bad news, and I'm really struggling today, we're just going to, we're literally going to eat over the kitchen sink tonight. Like I need you to understand, you know, only we don't really eat over the kitchen sink, but just like, just so you just so you understand, like how the rest of the night is gonna play out, I need a little bit of space, or I need to, I do a lot of walking, I walk a lot and to kind of center myself. And so sometimes I say, you know, we're going to be, you know, on our own for the next hour, go do what you need to do, or whatever I'm gonna go, I need to go for a walk. And like she has context, she understands that that's important for me, and has a better context of how things are playing out without having to own it like that feeling like, Did I do something wrong? What, why aren't we hanging out? Or why are we not having an elaborate dinner tonight? But just being able to say, here are some of my needs too, and I need to go get those met. That's part of it. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  12:21  

Yeah, and it's modeling for for her of when she's in relationship with other people of being able to communicate her needs and be able to take that time it would like to notice, hey, I'm not, I'm not where I want to be at this moment, I need to go center myself, I need to decide, you know, whatever. Whatever strategies work best for me, I need to do that and communicate that to somebody else. And that that's okay, that's okay to have those needs. And that's okay to take care of yourself. I love that. I want to go back to one of the things you said about rejection because hearing your bio, and then hearing you say the story of my life is rejection sounds like very opposite ends of the spectrum, right. But I think that's so important for people to hear about. Because all we see are all these successes, we see that you've written 11 books, we see that you're a tenured professor, we see that you have a podcast and that you're a mom, and that you do all these you know, you've been like editor of everything and speaker of everything and you're a keynote of a conference next week. And so tell me more about that idea of rejection and how that plays into your life. 

Corey Seemiller  13:27  

Well, it's funny, because I'm scrappy. I'm really, really scrappy. So I actually wrote this really great essay many, many years ago about rejection, and and how it really propelled me forward. So I'll just give you a little bit of history. So when I was in my in high school, I applied to my high school's leadership program, and I didn't get in.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  13:48  

What?

Corey Seemiller  13:48  

Yeah, I was, I was told I didn't have quite the potential. And so I waited a year and I applied again, and I did get in my the second time around, I applied to get into my college's Leadership Program, and then I didn't get into that either. I was told I didn't have leadership potential. And then I was told in my very first job as a student affairs professional, that I lacked initiative and that student affairs wasn't a good fit for me. And just so we're clear, I'm a tenured professor of leadership and I teach Student Affairs just so we just are all on the same page here. So and I say that sort of tongue in cheek because my whole thing is, watch me. I don't do it because of or in spite of anyone. But I, I do it because I'm not going to let anybody deter me from my dreams. And I have now later gone on to teach future student affairs professionals. I've gone on to run leadership programs. As a matter of fact, I've even consulted for the very leadership program that I didn't get into and which was very, very fun. And then I had a faculty job that I applied for, and this was a recent Facebook post I put out there as a faculty job I applied for and the dean said, Oh, okay, well, I you know, tell me about your your research. And I told him a little bit about what I was doing. And he's like, kind of skeptical. And I said, What's even your publication agenda? And I said, Oh, I'll have 10 books in 10 years. And he's like, yeah, right. So the 10 year anniversary was last month, and I have 11 books.

Corey Seemiller  15:13  

And so 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  15:14  

I love it. 

Corey Seemiller  15:15  

You know, there's a lot of setbacks, and I get a lot, I just got another rejection. Last week, I applied for a book award, I didn't get it. But my whole philosophy with all of that is, so I don't violate copyright. I'm going to cite just it is the Arizona lottery motto, and it's You can't win if you don't play. So I put myself out there over and over and over and I failed. I don't get picked for things all the time. I don't get selected for this don't get. I've had so many rejections for jobs. I've had rejections. For books, I've had rejections for everything. But I have to believe, believe deep down that you can't win if you don't play, you have to put yourself out there, you have to just have some tough skin, but that you haven't found the right place or the right person, and not that there's something inherently wrong with you. And that was a big shift for me to understand. And even my daughter reminded me of that, she's like, You just haven't found the right agent, mommy, she goes you don't want somebody to just take you just to take you. She's like you want to find the right agent, and it's a reminder that my book hasn't found the right publisher, I haven't found the right job yet. Or even in like partnership, right? I haven't found the right person to be with it doesn't mean I am unlovable. And and that's a real shift for me to see that loss or rejection or something that you were hoping for, sometimes is the greatest thing that could possibly happen. 

Corey Seemiller  16:25  

And there's this Garth Brooks song. I'm not really a religious person. But I love the sentiment of this as unanswered prayers. And sometimes you want something so bad that you don't see what's right outside. And like you really you apply for this job. I remember applying for a job. And then I was so incredibly disappointed that I didn't get it. And guess what, I got the job where I ended up working with you, Leanna. And I learned so much that year. And it was a really transformative year, I also wrote a book that I wouldn't have been able to write had I not have that had that opportunity that year, like that year was incredibly transformative for me. And then I went on to get the job that I'm in now, which is like the perfect fit for me. And at the time, I was devastated. And then a few months later, the job came along where you know, working alongside you. And that was such a great gift to me. But it was like sometimes you don't know what's out there. And so you just have to keep trying and finding your path. And I'll get there, I'll get there. Like I always say it's not a matter of if I'm going to get my book published. It's just where I just don't know. And it's taking a little bit longer because I'm doing process of elimination. But so I think it's a lot of life lessons I've learned that you can't win if you don't play the idea that failure and rejection is not usually about the person. I mean, unless you're just made a lot of errors. But usually it's just about finding the right place. And so I just don't give up. I'm not going to give up. I don't usually give up, I will change direction, I will recalibrate I will learn I you know, I don't bang my head up against the wall. But I you know, to try to force myself through a wall when there's a door behind me. But no, I mean, it's been a long journey of that. But yeah, rejection is just part and parcel for every one thing that gets accepted. I've had 10 rejections. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  17:58  

Wow. 

Corey Seemiller  17:59  

Yeah. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  18:00  

How do you keep moving forward or pivoting? And what keeps you going? Because you said like that job. And I'm so glad that job didn't work out so we could work together. 

Corey Seemiller  18:09  

Yeah. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  18:09  

But you said you were you felt devastated. So like, what do you do to kind of pick yourself up and keep going? And how do you stay focused and motivated to continue? 

Corey Seemiller  18:18  

Well, there's a couple of things. One is, I have to see it as a learning moment. What can I do differently next time? If I wanted to replicate this exact situation is there anything I would change? The second thing is looking at where am I going? Was this really the right job for me? And in retrospect, I'm really thankful I did not get that job, because that wouldn't have been a good fit for me, where I am now is a really, really good fit. So part of it is like this learning and reflection piece that I think is important, where I think everything is a life lesson. And if I see that as again, not a not a measurement of my worth, but really just, Hey, I was meant to learn this lesson, because something better is out there for me, that keeps me having a more kind of optimistic viewpoint. 

Corey Seemiller  18:56  

But I also think that there's something like I said, I'm not religious, but I am, I am spiritual. And I do believe that there are certain things that happen in certain ways. And they unfold. Sometimes things just unfold serendipitously without real explanation. And I have this this memoir that I'm working on. And I mean, I've edited this thing. I've worked with several professionals over several years now to get this memoir done. I started pitching it out, maybe six months ago, and just rejection, rejection rejection. And then it was interesting, because I was trying to figure out what might I need to do, right? What is it not capturing attention? So I took a class on how to write a letter, a query letter, and like, Okay, I feel good. But then I was like, I think there's something up with my first 50 pages that I'm submitting like, they're just not captivating like the rest of the book. So I sent it out to an editor and she sent it back to me. And what she had done is she had made such a small change in the flow of each of the first chapters in the 50 pages. And she just flipped around some dialogue. And I was like, Oh my gosh, this reads, it's the same content. It reads so differently. And I went back and I've been doing that with the rest of the book. I've been just literally flipping this dialogue. It's a very simple process, but it's made the book read like 1000 times better. And I look back, and I think I am so glad those first 30 agents that I pitched to when I had the book the other way, didn't pick this up. So I have to think that at the moment, the moment when things aren't happening, that the universe has something better in store for me. So for me, there was a better book to come. And I wasn't, if I would have just had something come my way, I would never have been able to do the best work. And so sometimes I see that rejection is a gift, it means you're not ready. And there's, again, there's something there's a better fit, there's something else you need to do, like in my case, I needed to work on the book a little bit more. And so if I have those things, that gives me a sense of optimism, right? That I haven't found the right place, or it's not ready, or I need to learn from this. And with that, it's easy to get back up because I say okay, the rejection is almost like a breath of fresh air. I'm not ready. Okay, good. Let's figure it out. And then it's like a puzzle, what do I need to do? And that's hopeful that feels hopeful, where rather than devastating.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  18:56  

Yeah, I love that perspective. So much. We could all learn from that, and take that and apply it to so many different areas of our life, about rejection of relationships, and jobs, projects, and just any opportunity. And as you're talking, there seems to be like a lot of passion or something with leadership, because you applied for the leadership program twice in high school, and then again in college, and now you're a leadership professor, and you've written a bunch of books about leadership. What is it about leadership, that even from a teenager's perspective, like from from your teenage Corey was like, so interested in this? What is it about leadership that really gets you? 

Corey Seemiller  21:39  

I think one of my favorite parts has always been helping people reach their potential to be the best that they can be. And I always thought, if I could do that, as a leader, or I could help other people do that for other people, that that would just make the world a better place. And so even at a young age, I was always into, like diversity, equity, and inclusion, social justice stuff, like trying to make places as welcoming, supportive, inclusive and thriving as possible that people can be their best selves. And for me, that just that didn't really come from any personal experience, other than it just was a drive inside of me to want that for the world. And so I wanted to be able to be a part of that I wanted to be able to write curriculum that challenged people to think differently about themselves and others to literally transform them as humans. 

Corey Seemiller  22:24  

So it's not about leadership, like I want to make you a better manager, so your workers don't quit. It's more like, I want to make your workplace such a thriving space for people to feel like they can show up and do their best work and feel fulfilled and happy and cared about in the process. And then whatever happens from your workplace ends up trickling out into the world. And so that's always been really what I've desired to do. And, you know, I've taken meandering roads to kind of do that. But that's really what it is. It's really about potential. 

Corey Seemiller  22:52  

And so what I think was really ironic about all of it was some of it probably was also emphasized by the fact that I was told in a number of occasions, when I applied to get into these very leadership programs, it was about potential building, that I didn't have the potential to even have my potential built, it made me just furious, to be honest, like just internal drive to say, we have got to make the world a place where everybody can thrive and reach their potential, not just those that we select to think that they have the most potential to do something. And so when I had an opportunity to run a leadership program, a college level leadership program for many, many years that you had to apply to get in just simply so we had your like, phone number. Really, it wasn't because it was a you know, we wanted to know you were there for the right reasons. But it wasn't about how much potential you had or how much past leadership experience you've had. The idea was, I wanted to create a space where people could develop into their whole selves. And it wasn't for me to judge whether I thought you could. And I had been judged by that for many years. But I even had this feeling even before that happened. But yeah, I just want to make a place for anybody and everybody, I believe anybody and everybody has the capacity to be a leader. 

Corey Seemiller  23:54  

And I do think anybody and everybody, they are leaders in some realms, whether they're they they're a leader within themselves, they take initiative to do things like you know, they're walking through a park and they see trash and they pick it up and put it in a trash can. That's leadership that's reaching a potential of saying, I'm going to make a difference in the world. And I'm doing it by picking up the trash. It might be with your family, it might be with your friends, your communities, your jobs, it could be political office, there's really no end to it. But I think that it's this idea of capacity building and you know, just helping people reach their potential that has really been the driving force for me. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  24:25  

I love that. And I think you live your life in a way that embodies leadership, because part of leadership is rejection and, and failures and learning, constant learning, you know, like you talked about with your daughter of being real and vulnerable. And I think that that is probably a different kind of leadership than maybe other people might believe leadership to be and so I think there's something when you're talking about like the people who select the next generation of leaders, they're doing that with their own lens, right through their own lens and their own definition of leadership, and I think that there are a lot of different definitions of what it means to be a leader, I think this is something that I found. So at the company we worked at together, where I was the only woman on the leadership team. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  25:19  

And at first, I had a really hard time, being able to bring my style to the table and feeling comfortable with that, and being the authentic leader that I am. Because I felt like constantly kind of checking myself against these men doing it very differently than me, and having a very different approach and thinking, well, maybe that's leadership. You know, I mean, I had studied leadership in my master's degree program, and, and I kind of, you know, had studied different ways of being a leader. But I think the idea that we all show up differently, and bring our own unique selves to any role that we're in, whether it's a leadership role or not. But then whenever we become leaders, I think we almost I should say, for me, I've thought, like, oh, there's like this leadership prototype, and I need to, like, figure that out. And then like, be that person, and what I found was that it wasn't authentic. And it wasn't me, it just didn't work. And then when I, at some point, decided, like, I'm not doing that I'm just going to show up as me, I was so much more effective, and so much happier. And my team was happier. And, you know, I saw the the actual results of it. So I love what you're saying about being inclusive about leaders that anyone can be a leader, and that we all might show up a little bit differently in our roles and definitions of leadership. 

Corey Seemiller  26:49  

Absolutely. And I love that story because that happens with a lot of people, we try to fit into some kind of mold. I have funny stories, sort of related to that one of my very, very previous jobs, I had taken the StrengthsFinder instruments, and I got my top five strengths, right. But I also took the extensive training, so they give you the 30 all 34 of them in order, which they don't do because they don't want you to look at your 34th strength and figure out like, oh, quote, weakness, but what did I do? I looked at the 30. And then I happened to mention it to my supervisor. And I said, I have empathy as my 34th strength. And so it was either like a one on one or an evaluation to me, she said, You need to demonstrate more empathy, that is going to be your job, you need to be more empathetic, all this stuff, right? So I'm like, I don't even know like what empathy looks like. I'm like, so I was struggling a little bit. So what I did is for like, a week, I went around with my, my direct reports. And I was like, oh, that must be really difficult to be in your shoes. And, and they're like, what? And I was like, robotic. I'm like, I can only imagine how you feel.

Speaker 1  27:53  

And so after about a week, one of my staff members came in and she goes, we need to talk, what in the world is going on with you? Why are you being so weird? And I said, What do you mean? So she said, You're acting really funny. And she was telling me the stuff I was doing. And I told her why I was doing it. And she said, What on earth? She said, No, that is not you, that is not authentic to you. And they said, but then But then I don't have any empathy. She goes, Oh, my goodness, she goes, first of all, if you want to just look at these instruments alone, which this is only one way of looking at it, you have this strength of responsibility in your top five, she said, You advocate for us more than anybody I've ever met, you feel so such a sense of responsibility to make sure that we are taken care of that we are successful. She said, I don't need you to say I know how you're feeling, this must be really hard. She said, I need you to just do something and make me feel like you care. And you do that every single day. And she said, this, that's you do that don't do whatever this thing is you're doing. And she said, and besides the fact like you do have empathy, just because there's number 34 on some test doesn't mean that you don't have any empathy. She said, You have a great deal of empathy, do not change what you're doing and how you show up. On behalf of all of us, please stop doing whatever you're doing to. I was like, okay, because I thought that that was like, I needed more of that. But what I didn't realize is that I had been leveraging all these other things to show up in ways that that was authentic to me, and was clearly working for them. And I started messing it up by trying to fit into some kind of mold and that that wasn't going to work. And from then on, it's like, here's how here's how I show up. I mean, I don't want to be unproductive. I don't want to be disrespectful, I don't want to be disloyal, those kind of things. But here's who I am very passionate, extroverted, driven, achieving kind of human and I operate best in those modes. And so I try to align myself with projects and people that appreciate that and not projects and people that that doesn't work for them. And I found that that's just a better way of living my authenticity.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  29:48  

Yeah. When you're talking about like that supervisor that I think that is if we are always taking the external feedback that we hear from other people, right, from your supervisor telling you to work on empathy, or from the high school leadership program director telling you that you have no leadership potential or whatever job you're applying for are telling you that you're not right for the role, or whatever it is, it's important and helpful to hear feedback. And also, it's important and helpful to check in with ourselves about like, does this feedback resonate with me? Is this a direction that I want to go right? Like, is this feedback that I want to take in? And that I want to take on? Or do I want to just say, like, actually, that's not for me, feedback is much more about the other person and their lens. And so I think there's a lot to be said about that. 

Corey Seemiller  30:47  

Yeah, absolutely. What you're talking about is context. Who is it coming from? What are they mirroring back to you? Because sometimes people get feedback about things that people wish that they would do themselves. Like, right? You need to be more of this. And it's like, oh, really, well, maybe you need to be more of that. You know, Where's that coming from? And then it's important for ticket, you know, like I, I took that empathy feedback with a grain of salt and thought, Okay, well, maybe I should look into this. And then when I did, it didn't feel like that exact approach was the right one for me. And it didn't come off as the right one for me. So I, I listened, and I checked in, and I took it into consideration, as I do with all feedback. But some of it, you just have to discount because it's you're right, it's coming from the other person's expectations or their lens. It's obscure feedback. I've been told by people, well, one person in particular that I am too passionate. Like, what does that mean? What does too passionate mean? Does it mean that I'm like steamrolling other people? And like an idea generation process? Because that's a problem. I don't want to do that. Or does it mean that I'm just driven and I just love what I do. And the feedback was, you just, you're just driven. You love what you do everything you take on you love what you do. And it's just overwhelming for other people to have to try to compare themselves. And I said, well, then stop comparing yourself. Because passion is my favorite part of me. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  31:58  

Yeah. 

Corey Seemiller  31:59  

And if you can't appreciate that, and I'm not doing anything negative to you at that, then that's that's your own feedback. That's feedback to yourself, why is my passion bothering you?

Leanna Laskey McGrath  32:07  

Right.

Corey Seemiller  32:07  

It's not bothering me, and it's not hurting people. So it is interesting when you'd have to sort of sit with it, and then figure out who it's coming from. I've been told by some folks, You might not want to share about your successes, because it intimidates people. I've been told that by a number of people, like it's just giving you some friendly feedback, it intimidates people to hear about, like, how successful you are. And I say, I hardly talk about my successes. I'm always talking about my failures, like, well, nobody pays attention to the failures, when you talk about them. They listen to the successes, and then you know, and I was like, I can brag about them if I want, I don't brag, but I'm like, I can, they're my successes. Why did they make you uncomfortable? 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  32:43  

Right.

Corey Seemiller  32:43  

And that's just been a really interesting thing to sit with. And like some people just they get intimidated. And part of it is like, maybe they're not living up to their own expectations. Or maybe they feel like I'm setting some kind of a bar or that I'm somehow judging them. I don't know. But, but it's interesting, because feedback often comes from people who are working through something related to that themselves. And that's why they gave me that feedback, some feedback is just straight up good. Like Stop interrupting people. Okay, that's good. Thank you for telling me that.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  33:07  

Right. 

Corey Seemiller  33:08  

But some of it really does come from people's own stuff. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  33:11  

Yeah. And this is also making me think about the episode I did with Dr. Amy Diehl a few episodes back about gender bias in the workplace. And the research that she and her co researcher did, found, that basically, on like 34 different metrics that women specifically are judged as being either too much or not enough of everything, there's no right amount, right? There's no right amount of passionate that a woman can be she's either too passionate, or she's not passionate enough, she doesn't care. And so whenever I saw that research, and that was why I invited Dr. Diehl onto the podcast to explore that some more. Because for me, I was like, ah, that is so relieving. It's a problem, obviously. And hopefully we can we can work to change it. But also, for me being told that I was too much of something or not enough of something else. And trying to find this like perfect balance of like, what is this tightrope that I can walk on where I'm the perfect amount of, of whatever quality someone is trying to tell me to be is exhausting. 

Corey Seemiller  34:19  

Yeah. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  34:20  

And impossible, literally impossible. 

Corey Seemiller  34:23  

Absolutely. You know, it's interesting, because when you were  talking about it couched in gender to is you know, interestingly where I'm getting a lot of it is from other women. We're just self perpetuating that and so there's some interesting dynamics in that element in and of itself, but you're right, trying to find that balance and then even if you were to find whatever this elusive balance is, you meet somebody else and you're too much of one thing or not enough, you're never going to be everything to everyone, except you just need to be everything to yourself. That's what's most important. And just show up as I always say, I'm going to show up as myself and that love it or leave it right. Like I said this just the other day, we're talking about friendships. And I said, you know, people talk about, you know how difficult it is to make friends as an adult. And I said, You know, I really put myself out there. And I like to make friends everywhere I go, and I rekindle old friendships. And I have, I work really hard on that. And they said, but one of the things I, you know, I want to make sure is that I align myself next to people, even as just friends or collaborators or whatever, that like me that think that I am the perfect balance for them that I am, what they're looking for. Because I said this out loud, I said, There are just too many great people in this world. And but we don't all have to be connected to each other. It's impossible. And so there's a lot of really great people. 

Corey Seemiller  35:36  

So for every one person who might think I'm too passionate, there's someone else who just loves that and wants to be around that energy. And yeah, those are the people I want to hang out with, you know, and it's not that there's anything wrong with the people who think I'm too passionate, they have other people that they can hang out with that are their speed. And that's totally fine. Because we're all looking for people to bring up again, the best in us our potential, and I want to be around other people that want to build my potential to not dim me, right, but light helped me light my fire. And that's, and that's me, if like I'm around someone, and they helped me light my fire, then you get to stay. And I want to help you light your fire. That's just what I think is a contributory relationship, professional or personal.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  36:12  

Yes. Amen to that. 

Corey Seemiller  36:13  

Yeah. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  36:14  

I am curious about you're talking about this, love it or leave it. And I want to align myself with the right people. And you know, I just need to find the right place and the right person, it seems like you're kind of found a really good balance of that at work and where you're living, has it always been that way for you? Have you you have this like, perfect place that you've crafted and you know, where you're feeling valued, and people are appreciating you and you're enjoying being around them, and you're feeling aligned? Is that how it's been your whole life? And or how did you get to this point? 

Corey Seemiller  36:51  

Part of it has been, I've always been this sort of overachiever kind of person. And I found it difficult to find my people in many ways, like you were saying, particularly growing up in an era decades ago, where it was even more so putting girls in their place. And, you know, those kinds of things, that being this overachiever, I had a lot of other friends that were just like, I'm just going to stop and give up on that, because it's just never going to happen. And so it was, it was difficult to find my place. But as I got older, I started to realize that like, there are people that want to do big things will, you know, go big, you know, all these kinds of kind of philosophies that I have about the world, you know, like, just put yourself out there. And there are people like that, and there are people that appreciate me for being like that. And it took me a long time to find that. And so in jobs, I've you know, I've struggled, you know, it's, you know, bosses see pushing and pushing you down. And I've had situations, just even friends, just just life where I'm like, Oh, it felt really heavy. 

Corey Seemiller  37:46  

And it just got to a point in the last few years, probably in the last three years where I was just like, I'm done with that, it doesn't make me feel very good. And I want to find my people. And so now I have a professional and a personal philosophy that is this, I don't want to do anything that I don't want to do. And I don't want to be anywhere that I don't want to be. And I know that that isn't always the case. Because we do have to go to work, we do have to go to the grocery store and buy groceries, we do have to do things like I do have to help my daughter with math, you know, obviously, there's some things that we have to do. And we have to be and we have to go. But there's a lot of things that we don't and we do out of obligation. It's like when someone invites you to a dinner party, they're like, the last thing I want to do is go and you're like, Oh, sure, I'll go. And so I'm getting into this philosophy of like, I don't want to do those things, I want to focus my time and attention on the things that bring me passion. And if I'm constantly going to things that don't bring me passion, or working on projects that don't bring me joy, then I'm taking time away from the things that do. And so I've decided that there's only a handful of people that I want to collaborate with, moving forward collaborate and write with. So it's just it, i There's only a few projects that I want to do. And I want to focus on them, there's only a few places I want to be and go to. And I really made those a priority. And I mean, I know that there's lots of things, you still have to go and do. And I do those things. But those elective things, I don't feel guilty about it anymore. 

Corey Seemiller  39:08  

And I've been able to just be able to write reprioritize and put all of my my passion into the things that I care about. And it seems to be drawing in lots of other people who are doing the same. So I'm attracting that. And so like I said, when I'm finding my people and finding other people that want to do those things, too, so when I am collaborating, I'm collaborating with other people who are just as passionate as I am. I'm friends with people who are just as into our friendship as I am and I'm finding that that is soul filling, right? But also just prioritizing in terms of my own time management and so to do that, and so I haven't always been like that, but I have always been passionate about doing and doing and going and finding what it is that brings me joy but I'm finally at a place where I'm pretty clear what brings me joy and what does not bring me joy. 

Corey Seemiller  39:50  

It is so interesting. In the last year I get LinkedIn messages right and left from people. People that I do not know that are like, Oh, I know that you do leadership or I know that you would do Gen Z stuff and I would love to meet with you and pick your brain. No, no, thank you, I don't know who you are, I don't want to pick your brain, I don't want you to pick my brain, I can appreciate it. You tell me what what a potential collaboration could be. And maybe I'll consider it. But at this point, I'm taking on only the projects that I want. If I have to hear any more synergy meetings on Zoom that we can have with some stranger, my art is not in it the same way. It's like, I'm not passionate. And if I found that if I just like the authenticity, we're talking about, if I'm not passionate, and I try to like sort of fake passion for something, I feel like I'm dying inside. And so now what I'm doing is I'm surrounding myself with the people and the projects that bring me joy. I'm saying yes to opportunities that seems interesting and creative. So I'm not turning every one of them down. But I'm not taking every single meeting and every single opportunity, because some of those things I just know are not going to be in the places and spaces that I emotionally and mentally and spiritually need to be in order to do them for the way that I want to do them with authenticity and passion.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  40:54  

Yeah. Well, number one, I feel so honored that you came on the podcast. So thank you for saying yes.

Corey Seemiller  41:02  

Of course. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  41:03  

And also, what I'm hearing you say is that when we cut out the stuff that doesn't matter, and the stuff that doesn't bring us joy, it makes room for more of what what does, and it makes room for more, the people in our lives like to come into our lives to that we align with, the projects, the work and the things that we enjoy more. But yeah, I think it's, there's so many times that we say yes to things that we really don't want to do. And certainly like you said there are times that that we have to do that. But there are probably way less times that we have to do that than we usually actually need to, right.

Corey Seemiller  41:40  

Exactly. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  41:41  

Yeah, I love what you're saying about that. Did something change for you that suddenly said there was this moment where I'm done with that? Like what allows you to say no to things that you may have said yes to before? 

Corey Seemiller  41:52  

To be honest with you, it happened during COVID. That was a very reflective time. You know, we know I know, for all of us, it was very scary and sad and devastating. And so many things that made me kind of question my mortality, right, like, am I living for what I should be living for? It gave me a lot more downtime to reflect on what was important. It gave me a lot more downtime to also pick up projects that I always wanted to do that were on the backburner for things that I didn't want to do. It made me think about who are the people that I wanted in that social bubble, right, who were the people I wanted to align with? Who came out after COVID, right like which relationships friendships, work partnerships, what things stuck in what didn't. I got more centered, I went on a more like a physical journey where I started walking and hiking a lot more than I was before. And so I would go out and get centered. And I found that some some physical practices around centering were transformative to me to just sort of reflect on what's most important. So I think that's kind of where it got its big start for me. 

Corey Seemiller  42:54  

I relocated during COVID, as well, I came home to Arizona, which it's been a roundabout way where I've lived in places that I didn't want to live for many years, so that I can align things to eventually be where I am. And COVID brought me home physically and emotionally brought me home. And I realized there is nothing, nothing worth leaving for. No job, no situation, no nothing. And I had to make some really tough decisions. After COVID when things were kind of loosening back up again, people were going back to work and things. And I decided for myself that I am no good to anyone unless I'm good for myself. And so I needed to take care of myself and taking care of myself meant really thinking about where I wanted to invest my time, my energy, the people, the places I wanted to be the places I didn't want to be. And I came out of that and thought my whole world is different. I just have a completely different shift in mentality. 

Corey Seemiller  43:49  

So my I'm still obviously like an overachiever, passion, all those traits. And all those things are still the same my drive and ambition. But I just had kind of almost like a reckoning with myself, and had to realize what was most important. And I realized that there's lots of things that are really, that are really important, and that I had been neglecting those. And it's interesting because I have more today than I had before that with less stress and less time and I have all the things that I want plus more. So it's pretty remarkable how when you shift your mentality and like I made room for the things that I want to have in my life that they showed up in my life, and my life is so much more fulfilling, and yet I'm not busier. I'm not nearly as stressed as I used to be. And it's all because of that, and I still get to do all the great things that I love to do, and just in a much better and healthier, happier way. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  44:43  

I'm so happy for you. 

Corey Seemiller  44:45  

Thank you.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  44:47  

I think that COVID was was transformative for a lot of people for better or for worse and I resonate with that as well of kind of it was a time of looking inwardly and kind of taking stock of like, am I living the way I want to live? To me COVID during that time, like it was a really high bar of like, are you worth risking my life over to spend time with? You know, it changed how I decided to spend my time ultimately, because like you said, kind of facing our mortality and seeing that so many people were impacted by this. Am I spending my time the way I want to? And what do I want to change? How do I align if I have a shorter amount of time than what I thought? So yeah, I love hearing you talk about that as well, that resonates with me. So it's exciting whenever your friends are, are happy with what they're doing. And you know, and I know, it sounds like it's been a long journey to get here. I love how you send out your like, annual life UPDATE newsletter. 

Speaker 1  45:51  

My annual PowerPoint, I know people are like what do I have to do to get on your list? I'm like, just give me your email address. Then you'll be on it forever.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  46:00  

But I love it. Because I feel like I followed your journey over the years. So it's great to see, is there anything else that you would want to share or talk about or like, things you've learned along the way? Because like I said, every time I talk to you, I learned something. And I've loved this conversation that we had no agenda for. We didn't know where it was gonna go. But I know that everyone listening is is going to learn so much. So anything else you'd want to share? 

Corey Seemiller  46:25  

Well, I think something just as kind of a funny process thing is, we had no agenda for this. And if you would have done this with me ten years ago, I would have wanted an agenda with all the questions. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  46:36  

Me too. 

Corey Seemiller  46:36  

And so part of,  part of it is this idea of just taking life where it will go and you know, just like constantly looking for open doors and opportunities and say, you know, we did not know what this conversation was going to be when we started. And so it was, I think that's what I've learned to do more is just embrace life's unfoldings, right? And there's hard times I mean, you know, a lot of people like, oh, my gosh, you have all these great things in your world. Yeah, but there's been a really tricky last couple of years for me too. And it's been really hard. So it hasn't been all peaches and cream. And but to me, I think it's just the attitude, I try the best I can, I'm still not great at letting go. And just like letting, letting things unfold, but I'm getting better at it. And I think one of the things I can just say is to other people, as you're listening is that we're just a very stressed out group of people in this world today, we're stressed about everything. We're stressed about everything, rightfully so and everything is stressful, it's more stressful than it needed to be, you can't even call inquire about your cable bill anymore without it taking a half a day and three agents and buckets of tears. And I get that. 

Corey Seemiller  47:39  

If we can't overhaul the way that our society operates and the people around us, we can certainly alter the way that we respond to it. And so I'm still trying to make changes in society, I'm still trying to make it a better place to be. But I think about, there's just some things we we can't change. And there's some outcomes we can't get too attached to. And there's some failures that are just going to happen. And there's some things you just don't know, the person who cuts you off on the road, you know, might be having a horrible day and rushing to see their sister in the hospital, you just don't know. And I have to remind myself of this because I still get frustrated. And I still get some kind of angst. But that stress and that angst only hurts me, it only hurts me. And I'm just trying to live like a little bit more with the I call it like high vibrations, right? We've talked about you people talk about this high vibrations, people that bring in positive energy, good energy, and so that you have those in your buckets just as a reserve. So when someone does cut you off, or when you are on the phone with that cable person, you can draw from that reserve, and I didn't- I lived my life without a reserve for a really long time. And it made it even more stressful. And now, I know that if I'm having a rough day, my daughter might even say, What can I do to help? She's part of my reserve, you know, not to lean too heavily on her but that I've now crafted a life that I have the support and the people around me and the places that I want to be and all of that that is positive and fulfilling that the stress doesn't feel as heavy as it used to and I am a major work in progress. I am not prophesizing anything to anyone. But I'm just saying that this is a life lesson that I've learned. And I can't wait to continue to do that as I as I grow older, because that's the end that's what what really matters is just how healthy and happy and loved and loving, you know, you are. It doesn't matter about how many books you have on the shelf. Although to that dean, it matters. But that's been a really tough lesson. And I'm still way way knee deep in learning it. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  49:30  

Well, thank you for sharing, sharing that I agree with so much with that. And as you were talking about having an agenda, same. I've always been very like type A and need to have everything planned out. And something that I have as well in the last few years been working on letting go of I think it started in my coaching program, actually, when I did my coach training, the idea that like you show up as the coach and you don't have the agenda the client has the agenda and the quote that we always are reminded of is that, You will never know where you're going, but you will never be lost. And it's just kind of this idea of like, we might have a direction, but we might not know exactly where we're going. But it doesn't mean that we're lost. What happens sometimes is we stop, and we're like, whoa, what's happening, and I'm lost, and we start freaking out about being lost. And that's all that stress that you're talking about. And then we kind of miss out on that journey of, of where we're going and being able to enjoy it. 

Corey Seemiller  50:27  

I totally agree with you. I remember it was funny, when I graduated my PhD, one of my faculty members said, you know, how are you feeling? I said, Ah, I just really wish that I would have it was before I was graduating, I said, I wish that I could have just like, closed my eyes and woken up and I'd be at graduation. And I wouldn't have had that you remember all this traumatic stuff that I've had to go through. He said, Yeah but Corey, that's the good stuff. That's the journey. Don't wish it away, even if it's hard. Yeah, that's what I don't when I think back to grad school, I don't remember graduation as much as I remember all the stuff in between, even when it was hard, right. You know, that's the good stuff. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  51:02  

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom with us. And I love talking to you. And I've learned so much. And I know that everyone will as well. So thank you for joining me today. 

Corey Seemiller  51:14  

Oh, goodness, I loved this conversation. I'm glad we recorded it because sometimes you have these big conversations and you're like, Oh, I wish we would have recorded that. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  51:22  

Yes. 

Corey Seemiller  51:22  

So I'm really glad we got a chance to talk. This was really, really a special so I appreciate it. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  51:27  

Yes, likewise. Well, thank you so much, Corey. And thank you everybody for tuning in. And we will see you all next week.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  51:38  

Thanks so much for tuning in to the executive coach for moms podcast. Please like, subscribe or follow the show so you'll be notified when the next episode is available. I hope you'll join me again next time. Take care.