Navigating Uncertain Times While Avoiding Burnout - with Laura Nguyen

Leanna Laskey McGrath  0:00  

Welcome to the executive coach for moms podcast where we support women who are attempting to find balance and joy while simultaneously leading people at work and at home. I'm your host. Leanna Laskey McGrath, former tech exec turned full time mom, recovering perfectionist and workaholic and certified executive coach. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  0:27  

Hi everyone. Welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for joining me today. I am so excited to have this conversation and share it with you today. I have Lauren Nguyen here with me, and Laura is an executive coach and a burnout expert, and she's been on the podcast before, so I invite my favorites back, so I'm so happy to have you back. Laura. Laura was here for episode number 55 Creating a Path Through Burnout, redefining success and values as a high achiever, and now she's back for episode 88 and I reached out to Laura because I was like, Listen, this time that we're in right now is such an interesting, challenging one for so many different reasons. And as I've been watching kind of conversations in different working moms groups and executive moms groups, there's been a lot of anxiety and fear and concern about the future, and, you know, am I going to have my job tomorrow and things like that. And so I think that whenever we're carrying all of this on top of all of our mental load and everything that we are normally already carrying, that is kind of a fast path to burnout, and so maybe we could share some strategies that we have found successful, things that she's learned about burnout in general, and see how we can apply them here in this time that we're in in 2025 so welcome Laura. 

Laura Nguyen  1:57  

Thank you. I'm so glad to be here. Thanks for having me back. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  2:00  

Yeah, thanks so much for coming back and agreeing to chat with me today. I think it would be helpful if maybe you could just tell us a little bit about you and your story. Whenever we last talked, it was back in fall of 2023 and I know a lot has changed for you since then, but maybe kind of recap for us. And by the way, if you haven't listened to Episode 55 I highly recommend it. I think that it was a really helpful episode. And the thing I remember from it, and that I heard from listeners about it, was your story about losing a colleague to cancer, and kind of realizing that, you know, life is short and you want to live it the way that you want to live it kind of a thing. So tell us all about you and where you've been the last few years. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  2:47  

Yeah.

Laura Nguyen  2:47  

Yeah. So okay, let's go back a little further for folks who maybe haven't listened to the previous episode. So I've been leading marketing teams for the last 20 years, so always really focus on performance marketing and helping drive technology and growth within organizations. So working at, you know, Fortune 500 organizations, as well as private equity owned organizations and like at the end of the day, like, I love my job like that was just the truth of it, was, I love driving performance. I love seeing results like that. Was kind of that dopamine high of being able to launch campaigns, test and learn and constantly evolve. But what happened was I got really burnt out in the process, because I set no boundaries for myself, and I continue to push myself beyond my limits without recognizing that I also need joy and I also need pausing to be able to really live a full life, right? Because relationships are really key, and I totally de prioritize them. And as you shared, you know, I lost a colleague, and you know, I think that really shifts things when you start to see organizationally how things kind of continue on within the organization, right? Like you still need to hit numbers and you still need to do the work, and now there's this gap that you have, and then you start to recognize that gap that exists at work is no way comparable to the gap that they feel, that their families feel at home, and there's just something very eye opening about that experience. 

Laura Nguyen  4:17  

So fast forward in time. We talked in the fall of 23 and then I started working on a book, which launched in November of 24 and so my book is called Career Break Compass, because I wanted to help people who were experiencing burnout plan and take a career break and then ultimately re enter work in a way that allowed them to be more whole. And you know, right now, you and I have talked about it, which is, you know, ex corporate is really where I was back when we were talking, and I've now re entered the corporate world as a marketing leader again, because I felt like it was important for me to take the tools that I talk about and that I learned and actually put it really back in the practice of, can we do this? Right, like, can we live a balanced, integrated life while dealing with the demands of our corporate world, and, you know, the goals and the quarterly demands that we need to make sure that we hit? So that's where I'm at now.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  5:12  

Okay, and how's that re entry been for you? 

Laura Nguyen  5:14  

It's been, honestly, it's been really good. So I ended up moving in-house from working on the consulting side, so it was a client that I was working with on the consulting side, and I moved in-house, and, you know, the people are really fantastic. The culture of the team is like, they're very caring. And that was really important for me. And then the other piece, so it is, is that, you know, I'm a different person than I was five years ago in this role, right? And so my lens is different. My reactionary components are very different. My perspective is very different. And so it feels good because I'm not the same that I was five years ago because of this break. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  5:54  

Yeah, yeah. What's kind of the biggest thing whenever you talk about perspective and your reactionary lens like I'm just curious. What do you attribute most to this being such a different experience than it was before you left? 

Laura Nguyen  6:09  

Yeah. So a couple things, which is, I can take a step back now versus feeling like I was, I was so in the trenches before. And I think one of the things that happens in burnout is you start to get agitated easily. Like, that's one of the first signs in burnout, is you start to recognize when you are getting snippy, you're starting to feel that heat rise in you because you're getting angry about something. That's, that's my default as an Enneagram one. So like, I get angry about things, and I'm quick to get angry about it, and then that resentment starts to build. The shift in perspective for me is that that isn't there anymore, so I'll recognize, oh, well, is this happening? And then I start to ask myself questions, why is this happening? What does the other person need in this conversation? How do I contribute to it? And how do I not contribute to it? Because sometimes it has nothing to do with me. So creating that really clear separation has been really impactful for me personally. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  7:03  

Yeah, I love that. As an Enneagram three that is also a sign for me getting agitated easily. I like to go back and read my old journals from, you know, different times in my life. And I was reading from like 2020 which was around the time where I chose to take a career pause, and I was on the path to burnout. I don't feel like I reached it, but I was there. And that definitely was one of the things I noticed that I wrote about a lot was like, I wish I wouldn't get so angry, like, so quickly. I just feel like I go from zero to 60 and I can't control it, and I can't take a step back. It's just like I'm in it. And I think when you talked about being in the trenches, it's like we just get so all in. It's like we get sucked in, and we're just all the way in there. And I think that happens at work. I think it happens when we do get agitated really easily. It's like out of our control takes over, and then whenever we have the ability to kind of take a step back and take a pause, like you talked about, and like you experienced, then it's like, oh, wait a minute. I'm in control here. I can decide how I want to respond, rather than, kind of, like, being in this reactionary space. And I can kind of decide like, how I want to show up here and, like, notice, like you said that what's happening, and maybe choose a different response. 

Laura Nguyen  8:18  

Yeah, there's a therapist that I've had, and one of the things that she's talked about is, like, window of tolerance, right? Like we have this window of tolerance, and once you start to step outside of your window of tolerance, there's a lot of recognizing and noticing, to your point, that we have to do. And so being able to say, I need to stop this conversation, I need to take a step away. Like that's our choice that we get to make. And if you're outside of your window of tolerance, and then trying to operate in that kind of, you know, really volatile space, like, nothing good comes of that, right? That's when, like, the urgent emails come out, and you're just going back and forth, and there's not coming to a solution, whether that's in our personal life or our professional life.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  8:55  

I think one of the quotes that I'm feeling and seeing right now as someone who in the past has called myself, like, yeah, like, I don't really, like, get into politics. Like, I'm not, like, super political. And I think Glennon Doyle says, and maybe she's quoting someone else, I can't remember, but it's like, you may not be into politics, but politics is into you. And I think we see that right now. I don't want to be thinking about politics. I don't want to be, you know, like dealing with all this stuff, and I don't think the majority of us do, but it's definitely here, and it is our reality right now. So I just wanted to kind of set that caveat and maybe have a little conversation before we jump in about the idea of getting political and navigating these conversations. What are your thoughts on that? 

Laura Nguyen  10:43  

Yeah, it's such a honest, vulnerable point right now, because we are going through so much volatility like we were, you know, my family and I, we came back from vacation on January 20, and, you know, on inauguration day, and then all of a sudden, all of these changes started happening, right? All you know, and there's all of this disruption and volatility and lots of questions and uncertainty, and you get to a spot where you're like, Well, what is happening? I feel so out of control. I don't know what impacts me in my day to day, and what doesn't impact me in my day to day. And when you talk to friends and you talk to neighbors, right, is there a guard that you might have of you know, oh well, if I talk about this topic, and you know, whether it's, you know, I want to buy an electric car and it's, you want to talk about a topic, but you don't know how it's going to be received. And so it becomes really, really challenging to navigate our day to day life, because what happens is, we then become so guarded that can we be our authentic self because of fear of what's happening on the other side.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  11:40  

Yeah, and it seems that maybe there's like some people are fearful and feeling anxiety right now, and maybe some people are feeling really great about what's happening right now as well. And I think, to me, like that's challenging to navigate too, because, you know, like, as I'm talking about, and thinking about this episode, because I have seen so many people who are feeling anxious and fearful, and I feel it in some ways myself as well. So I want to put this out there. And also I see people saying, like, everything's great. I'm so happy about what's happening right now. It's just really interesting, because it's like, who am I talking to, and how are they feeling about this? 

Laura Nguyen  12:19  

Yeah, I think that's so true. I think the challenge, I mean, I'll be totally honest, right? Leanna, like, at the end of the day for us, like, I'm Asian, my parents immigrated here. They were refugees, you know, I have, I'm in a same sex relationship. My wife and I are married, and, you know, we are fearful of whether or not our marriage is going to be recognized by this country. I had my daughter. She's mixed race. And so what does that look like? And so I think there's a component, even for us in our household, of watching the news and fearing for our safety and our community right at the end of the day. And I think that's a reality that a lot of Americans are facing. And you know, I the question of whether or not what rights will exist and what rights won't exist is something that becomes almost like a looming fear and threat that kind of goes through how we operate, right? Like it's an underlying stress. It's unseen as we're trying to work, as we're on conference calls, as we're taking our kids to swimming lessons, and I think that's something that we have to talk about and recognize because it's real. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  13:23  

Yeah, yeah, no, I so appreciate you sharing your perspective. And I, I couldn't agree more you don't know what that experience is for another person who they love and what they care about and what will be impacted in their lives versus what won't. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  8:19  

Yeah, for sure. Well, I want to talk about the idea of, how do we avoid burnout in this time. But first I just kind of want to take a step back, because before we started recording, I said, like, you know, let's figure out, like, how we want to find the right balance here, without, like, quote, unquote, getting political. Because I think the reality is that a lot of things that are impacting us right now are political, and it's kind of like we can't escape it, and so it's like, how do we talk about it in a productive way, without being polarizing, Without taking sides, without kind of singling anybody out and be able to talk about it in like, you know, a solution oriented way that that brings everybody together instead of making people feel apart. 

Laura Nguyen  13:40  

Yeah. And I think the thing about it that I'm trying to understand a little bit too, is it's about building connections and community in our real life experiences, like in our online world, right? Like, it's so easy for us to say whatever you want to say under the guise of some, you know, profile picture or an anonymous post, but the meaning and the impact that happens, really is in person. So it's about trying to find ways to connect with other people that challenge your thinking, but also you can have an open conversation with or that you're working on a community initiative together. That's really important. I think there is common ground, more common ground than we think. I remember I used to lead business resource groups in large corporations, and I led the LGBT group, and would have people come up to me during our festivals and say, Well, I think being gay is wrong. It's against my religion. And once we would start having a conversation, and I would say, you know, this is my family. Like, let's talk about, like, let's have a meal together. But that was always been, like, food always brought people together, right? And so like, let's sit down and have a meal and learn about each other. That starts to dissipate, because it's about connection and community. And I think it's easy for us to start to get really isolated, and especially when you're burnt out, one of the first signs is you start to isolate yourself. And the key is, how do you start to build community again, so that you can feel connected to something bigger than yourself.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  15:01  

Yeah. Yeah, well, let's talk more about that. So building community, I have found that to be probably one of the most helpful things right now, is building community with other people, both like minded who I who share my values, and people who have different opinions, because then we can have conversations, and it gives me a little bit more understanding, gives them a little bit more understanding. And I think that that is mutually beneficial. I think building community that's been super helpful for me, so tell me more about that then kind of what you have found as you have researched or, you know, learned more and wrote the book about burnout, how community plays a factor? 

Laura Nguyen  15:43  

Yeah, you know, when we think about some of the longest standing Harvard studies around, like happiness, right, like community and relationships were the number one, the number one indicator, right? When it came to centurions, people who live beyond 100 and I think that's a fascinating component, because we typically think, is it health the food we eat? Is it taking care of ourselves? But loneliness and connection are so important. That's why the Surgeon General, right, announced, like, two years ago, that loneliness was an epidemic and so community for me, I remember when I was feeling really burnt out, and I ended up leaving in 2022 like, you know, yes, 2020 was kind of the beginnings of, kind of a sense of isolation. But I actually pulled back all of my metrics for sleep and for exercise. It was actually 2022, that everything eroded for me. I was sleeping three and a half hours a night. I was basically walking 600 steps a day, like it just was a nose dive in all of my kind of core metrics. And I felt really alone. And I think at the time, I had expected, like my work community, to be able to be my community, and I put so much emphasis on work as where all of my relationships resided. That's not necessarily true, nor should it be right. And so I think there's a few things when we think about community. 

Laura Nguyen  16:59  

For me personally, when I went on my own and opened on my own consulting, I tried to find like female founder oriented organizations or entrepreneur organizations that would meet in person for me to connect with so that, honestly, was a dramatic shift and change. Like just connecting with other women who are running their own businesses, who were facing different challenges, who, you know, were creators in different spaces, just hearing their stories and being able to connect and have that camaraderie was really powerful for me and relationships that I've now carried. You know, having your tribe is so important, and that has helped me really kind of build out my tribe a little bit differently. The other piece is for those of us who can have relationships with family, I think family is always a touchy subject, right? Because there's our chosen family and then there's the hereditary family that we're in. And for some folks, their kind of given family is not necessarily as accepting or understanding, and maybe there could be some family trauma there, whatever it might be. So it's always a touchy subject, I feel like, but I think if there's a way for you to have a chosen family that you can actually connect with and be able to have strong relationships, that's really important. It doesn't mean you need 10 or 15 people like it means, like, you know, one or two close ties, and then also, it's building upon that some of the loose ties to connect with, where you just feel like you're not totally isolated. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  18:23  

Yeah, and I love your point about kind of not solely relying on the work community, because I think as we're seeing now, as there are mass layoffs and terminations in so many places, just how kind of fragile that is, so we don't have control over keeping that community together in the same way as we can in our personal lives. And I think as leaders like my belief has always been as a leader, my relationship with my team goes beyond whatever workplace we have. 

Laura Nguyen  18:54  

So I was just texting with actually, someone I worked with like, three jobs ago, I mean, just like reconnecting with him and say, Hey, let's grab coffee sometime. And actually was just messaging with another friend, even beyond that, like that I had worked with 15 years ago, and we're trying to grab coffee tomorrow. And one of the things that I had built out was a mind map a long time ago of who were the types of relationships that I want to have in my life. And, you know, I'd put like family, and who in my family would that be? Friends? What would that look like? Colleagues? What would that look like? Mentors? Who would that look like? And so that's where a visual reminder for me of who I need to check in with at certain points in time. So, you know, I might reach out to my friend Misty, even though it's been a year since we connected, you know, and just say, hey, just thinking about you. Wanted to check in on how you're doing. And it's that brief connection that allows us to stay keeps that, you know, connection there, even though it doesn't have to be a street. We're all busy, right? And so sometimes it's nice to just get a text message and someone's thinking about you, and you try to schedule time to get together. And if it works out, great, if it doesn't, it's just the thought that, you know, someone's thinking of you as a positive thing too. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  18:54  

Yeah. I love that. I love how methodical you approach everything. And like, data, you look at your sleep data and oh my gosh, it's like you just like, live the things you talk about.

Laura Nguyen  20:10  

Yeah, unfortunately, like, I was sitting there and like, re charting from 2018 the nerd in me was like, Oh, this is really interesting. I wonder what the relationship is. And so I started recharging from 2018. I'm like, this is nuts, but it was actually affirming for me that like I'm on the right path, because then you look at my numbers in my break, and it was really important for me when I was re entering full time work again, to understand what are my metrics now, and how do I recalibrate myself in moments of busyness or stress, because I'm actually I, you know, you think about it like, yes, there's full time work, but there's also one of the things we talk about for communities, I'm launching a community that's based on the book Career Break Compass, so that it can help people who are planning a break and then trying to help them navigate after because I felt like there was nowhere for me to go and talk about the struggles I was having, so I wanted to create a space that people can have that. And so there's different pieces right that we have to think about of you're wearing many hats, and with all the many hats, we have to figure out how you're doing and how to recalibrate so that you can have joy in your life and take moments of rest.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  21:19  

Yeah. Well, the other things that I heard you say whenever you were talking about what led to burnout. So maybe some of these are things that we should think about, or you tell me what you think here are down boundaries, pushing beyond your limits, not prioritizing relationships, which we're kind of talking about a little bit here, kind of being in a reactionary lens, and then, just like not making time for joy. So what do you think of those, or anything else that you're those in your head, would be another thing that you would recommend to people now, or that you're finding is helpful now, and kind of navigating this time and and steering clear of burnout.

Laura Nguyen  21:59  

Yeah, you know, I think one of the interesting things is all the research around burnout talks about burnout not just being about overwork. And I think in so many ways, we think about burnout as we're just working too much. But in my own research as well, one of the things I have found it has more to do with values misalignment than anything else, which means, like, I'm living out of alignment with what I care about, right and who I want to be. And so I think that key piece of it is, I always talk to folks about making sure you get really clear on your values, like, what are the three values that you really care about that articulate how you want to show up in the world and what's going to make you happy? And so I always start there. There's a really great exercise I think Brene Brown has in her book that has, like a whole list of words, and that you go through and you circle it. I've got it on my site, and it's in my book as well that are kind of similar resources, but I feel like starting there is super helpful for folks, because it creates almost like a North Star lens, like this is where I'm going, and that's what I care about. And then every decision you make, it ties back to those core values. And so when I'm facing a big decision, I look at my core values and say, Does it meet this criteria? And if it doesn't meet that criteria, then the answer is clearly no, right? I think that's helpful. 

Laura Nguyen  22:00  

The second recommendation I have for folks is, this is a time that we are, we're either moved to action, right, like we want to, especially those who are an advocate, so we're moved to action. There's like, so much we can do. We just want to feel like we have some semblance of control of our day to day lives. And you know, I think some of my activist friends would get really angry at me for saying this, but I think we also need to take some time for rest. You got to power up for the day to day that you have right. You've got to power up for and be really thoughtful and strategic about what are the initiatives that you want to make sure that you're advocating for, so that you're not in a reactionary mode. There's so much going on, you've got to figure out what's going to be important for you that you're only pulling certain levers. You can't pull them all. So if you can only do one or two things that can have the highest impact, in order for you to do that, you have to take a step back, rest, let yourself think more clearly before you decide which levers to pull. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  23:14  

Yeah, I love that. So what I'm hearing you say is that sometimes burnout comes from like taking all this action, action, action action, but like, it's not intentional action. It's not, you know, kind of thought through, and it's just like, I gotta go, I gotta go and just do, do, do. And we never stop and step back and take time to think and strategize and check in and say, is the thing that I'm doing in alignment with my highest priorities, like is the way I'm spending my time in alignment with my values. And I think that that is really crucial. I think that makes total sense. So I hear you saying, like two things are so important, is being clear on those values and priorities. And then making sure to take time to kind of step back and re evaluate the alignment, and is there an alignment with how I'm spending my time and my focus and my energy? 

Laura Nguyen  25:11  

Exactly. You got to check in. You've got to do self check ins to understand, does this How am I doing? Is this making sense right now? Am I low in a certain tank? And so in the tanks that I talk about are, I use play pause and plan. So it's about like, how do you make sure that you're intentional about things, right? Which is like your play is about like, are you feeling joy? What's your joy tank look like? Are you doing things that make you happy and smile? And if you start to notice your joy tank is low, you have to figure out what to do to be able to refill that ASAP. And then pause, like, it's about rest. Like, are you feeling tired and exhausted? Like, how can you put in rest? And rest doesn't just mean sleep, like, rest could mean cognitive rest. It could mean going into nature so that it's it's just a mindset type of rest. I think there's like, Sarah Dr, Sarah Dalton, has like, seven different types of rest, and you have to figure out what you need at different times. It's just different tools in your toolbox. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  26:05  

Yeah. Now let me ask you this, because I think probably, if I'm listening, I always am thinking, like, what are listeners questions gonna be? And one of the questions that might come up here is like, all right, I'm with you, Laura. I want to be clear on my values, and what we're talking about here is, like, being proactive, right? Like getting out in front of it, taking the rest before we hit the burnout, instead of, you know, having the feeling the burnout and then deciding to rest, making sure that we are clear on our values before we start the action, or, you know, while we're doing the action, rather than, like, getting into the action and being like, what am I doing here? I ended up in this place that I don't even want to be, and then backtracking. So I'm thinking is like, okay, like, yeah, that sounds great. I want to be proactive about all of it, but it feels like every time I turn on the news, it's like, hijacking me, right? It's like, it's like a hijack of, like, oh my gosh, this terrible thing is happening. Or, you know now my job is in jeopardy, or, you know, my best friend's rights are in jeopardy, or, or whatever, you know, I think then it's like, I want to be proactive and out in front of things. But also, how do I do that? Whenever, like, I think of like Maslow's hierarchy, you know, it feels like safety at the bottom there is just like constantly being poked at. What are your thoughts about that? 

Laura Nguyen  27:22  

Yeah, I mean, personally for me, I mean, I don't have the answer, but for me, what I've done is, honestly, we've really limited our news intake, and I'm really being specific about where my news sources are coming from. I've taken since November, a digital detox. To be honest, I just started back here in the last week to start publishing again. That was a bit intentional, because my book came out in November, so I did a ton of promotion for the book, and then decided that I was like, Okay, I'm going to take a little bit of a pause, because I don't want to get burnt out again. So I took a little bit of a pause for the holidays, and then have started back up in February. So it's about being thoughtful about, like, when and where do you want to take your breaks from some of these digital technologies that are always on, being thoughtful about where do you get your news? Because it is so easy for us just to turn on the TV and be inundated with, you know, a ton of headlines, and trying to figure out how to digest that is really stressful, to be honest. And I think the other key thing for me has been just double downing back on like my present life that I do have control over. So when I start to get a little out of whack, it's about, how do I make sure that I'm focusing on my family and my friends? And it just fills that joy tank a little bit differently when I recognize that sometimes finding the balance between being informed versus feeling the anxiety of watching all the headlines. I have to find that balance of when I allow myself to watch the news and for how long I even time limits on things Leanna, like on certain apps. I put time limits on all my apps so that if I have looked at it for longer than an hour, that's it for the day. Like, I can't see it anymore. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  29:02  

Yeah, I have found what has been helpful for me in that arena is blocking my access to apps I could judge myself for, you know, not having the willpower to not pick up my phone. But like, that's not helpful. So I have bought an app that doesn't allow me to access my other apps. I mean, this app exists because it's a problem, because people need it, right? So I have to block it during certain hours of the day if I want to get work done, yeah. And if I want to stay, stay focused. And I think, to your point, I'd be so interested to hear where you're finding news to be helpful. And I'm not like a TV person, so I'm not one to like, turn on the the news on the TV. But I'll tell you, I have found that scrolling Instagram has been probably the most anxiety inducing because it's like everybody's thoughts. There's just so much you don't know how many stories you're going to read in one scrolling session. It could be so many. And for me, I have been enjoying. Sub stack a lot more. I've kind of switched over there. It feels like less. I mean, there are less, like pictures and videos and things. So it's just less stimulating, you know, visually stimulating. It's mostly just words. It goes deeper into a thing, instead of just like, headline, video, headline, picture, headline. And so I have been finding that to be a little bit better. And then also, I love the podcast, We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon and Amanda Doyle and Abby Wambach. They just partnered up with Jessica Yellen and started a feature called Calm News, where they share the news in like, a less anxiety inducing way. And so that's been interesting, although I think the news in itself. I mean, when I listened to the first episode, I was like, I don't know that any news is calm right now. So, I mean, I don't know that, like, I don't feel anxiety listening, but they present it in such a way that, you know, they talk through, like, how to regulate your nervous system in those moments and kind of remind you throughout so that as soon as you start to feel hijacked, it's like, oh yeah, oh yeah. Here's what we're doing here. 

Laura Nguyen  31:07  

Yeah. Oh, I love that. I think that's the thing. So curated, right? Curated content. If you were saying, like getting news from certain reporters or outlets that make the most sense, you know that that helps you kind of digest information, to be honest with you, like we used to watch our news in the four box. So then I would get Fox News's view versus MSNBC view versus CNN view versus BBC view, and then you're seeing what the headlines are across, really all four of those major outlets which honestly caused its own anxiety, to be honest with you, because you're digesting four news channels at the same time, and then what I realized was, is that I was actually leaning more toward BBC News and how their reporting model is it just is for me, is less headline oriented, and it just feels a little flatter in a lot of ways, like their reporting just feels flatter for me, which is easier for me to digest. Yeah, again, I can only watch it for an hour, and then I've got to turn it off. But to your point, like meta platforms around news, it's really hard for me to scroll Instagram or even Facebook anymore, because even when I look at some of the posts, I have to still fact check it. And it's little things like the Super Bowl, right? Like that was some of the news from the Super Bowl and the Chiefs versus the Eagles. Like even having some of those posts, like having to go Google, is that real? Is that real news or not? And trying to validate the source of those going back and forth. I was like, why is this even? Why is this happening? Like, why are we not reporting on what actually is happening with, you know, let's say NFL refs, which might be its own, like, hot button topic, but I'm from Kansas City, so I'm a cheese fan. Throw and throw. You know, I think there was all that news where you're like, you're trying to, you're trying to validate information, and the work, the cognitive work you have to do, of, is this real? Should I check it? Does this make sense? Right? Like, is it, it's you shouldn't have to worry about what that looks like. And I think that becomes a bit a big challenge. 

Laura Nguyen  33:07  

So the other one is, like, the other areas would be like, tiktok videos, like, by themselves, like the way that you ingest information in short form videos is, I believe, anxiety inducing, because the way that they cut the videos now, so that you're keeping your attention, cutting the videos every like, what, two to five seconds, so you're having to watch really closely, because the let the view will change, and that they're really short form, so that you're constantly flipping to the next video, you could spend hours doom scrolling, yeah.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  33:37  

Not healthy, not productive. And hijacking for sure, yeah. So I think what I'm hearing us say is like, be intentional about where and when and how you're getting your news. I think to me, the most important thing is like, checking in and noticing, like, how do I feel after I look at this source? Right? How do I feel after I read this thing or watch this video, or, you know, maybe short videos are perfect for some people and other people. It's super anxiety inducing, right? I agree with you. I have the same experience. So it's kind of like for each of us checking in about what works for us and use the tools to our advantage in a way, like you were saying you've got an app that blocks your other apps, like there are ingrained, you know, settings that you have in your phone to help you. So, like, set your no time limit notification so that it creates a screen that says, hey, you've watched more than an hour. And, you know, set your phone to do not disturb, turn off your notifications so you're constantly not checking. Like, whatever it is that's helpful for you. You know, take the action to do that.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  34:42  

Yeah, yeah. And then I think, like getting centered before going consuming news, right? Like, am I already triggered and activated? Is my nervous system already hijacked? Maybe now's not the time for me to go check the news, because it's just gonna get worse. 

Laura Nguyen  34:56  

Yeah, go for a walk instead, choose a different path. Exactly. Sure.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  35:01  

So what else? Anything else that you would recommend? These have been, I think, super helpful things for everyone to think about. 

Laura Nguyen  35:07  

I think one of the things that I'd recommend, too, is getting in tune with your day to day by doing activities that require you to use your hands like cook more often, go through the exercise of being present and you're cooking a meal, you know, if you're into painting, do that. If you're writing hand, write something. There's something tactile about us getting more present in the moment that is also helpful from us anxiety, stress and a burnout mode that just grounds us differently. So I would say, try to find things that are not screen worthy, but also that require you to use your hands that do something different. I think you'll also find that probably, you know, you're probably going to eat a little healthier, which is always good, some soul food as well. And just being able to spend time and give different meals to people that you love and care about, it's always a good feeling. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  35:57  

Yeah, I love that. All right, I'm going to recap what we've talked about, some of the things that we can do to make it through this time without getting to burnout. So building community and focusing on relationships, being clear on our values and our priorities, taking time for rest, stepping back, pausing, checking in. You know, where am I at in my joy tank? Do I you know, when are my needs met? What do I need to do to make sure that that I that I have everything I need, being thoughtful and strategic about our news intake, so where, when and how do I want to intake my news, and noticing how different sources impact us at different times, and how long we spend on them and things like that. And then you said earlier, kind of focusing on what's in front of you, and also kind of using your hands and finding tactile things that you can do that kind of are, I mean, what I hear from that is like it's grounding. It like gets us back to we are here, we are present. 

Laura Nguyen  36:59  

And it's like all the stuff that's happening out there, like on a screen somewhere else, not that it's not important and doesn't impact us. But also getting back to, like the here and now, the present and the physically present right here in front of me can kind of help to bring down that anxiety and get us out of, you know, all the what ifs and all the fear and everything, and just like focusing on what we've got right right here in front of us, 100% 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  37:28  

Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Laura. I think that hopefully this is helpful for everyone. I think obviously we are both learning as we go here in these times, because they're new to us, too. And so I'm sure we'll continue to learn and find new ways of navigating this time. But you know, obviously we're all in it together. And so I will go back to and I love that point about building community and leaning on the people that you connect with and can count on. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  37:59  

So where can people find you, Laura, if they want to you know, we talked about a community, you know, if they want to connect with you, if they maybe want to learn more about about your work, tell us where to find you. 

Laura Nguyen  38:09  

Yeah, you can find me on my website. It's Laura newen.co so all my info, the community, the book, all my services, are included there. But I do want to say just I have so appreciated you and your friendship over the last like year plus, even just your check ins of, Hey, how are you doing? What's going on? Like you have been such a model for me in terms of building connection and community. So I just want to thank you wholeheartedly for that. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  38:35  

Oh, thank you, Laura. Thank you and the power of meeting people online. We were LinkedIn buddies, exactly online friends turn real life friends. So I love it. So thank you so much for spending time with me today, Laura. I know you've got a super busy schedule, and I'm so grateful to you for sharing with all of us. And thank you everybody, so much for tuning in. I'm wishing you the best in these times. Don't hesitate to reach out. I'd love to hear if you also have other things that you have found to be helpful so that I can share them with our community. Thank you, everybody. Have a great week. Bye, bye. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  39:15  

If you're loving what you're learning on this podcast, I'd love to invite you to check out The Executive Mom Reset. It's my six month coaching program for ambitious, success driven, career focused women who are ready to stop surviving and start thriving. Together, we'll tackle the stress, guilt and overwhelm that come with being a high achieving executive mom. You'll learn how to set boundaries, prioritize what truly matters, and build the confidence to show up powerfully at work, at home, and for yourself. Head on over to coachleanna.com right now to schedule a free discovery call. We'll spend an hour talking about where you are now, what you want to create, and how I can help you get there, because every woman deserves to live the life of her dreams. Let's create yours together.